Sponsors And Quick Welcome

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This episode brought to you by Kathy Ellewall State Farm Insurance Agent. Visit her at Kathylwall.com. In Herbs at the Curb, the new exciting coffee concept that brings fresh coffee, lattes, and more to your home. To learn more, visit herbshousecoffee.com. In Cote de Cour, April 25th at the Omni Dallas benefiting the American Heart Association. To learn more, visit Dallaswineauction.com. Hi, welcome to the Bubble Lounge. I'm Martha Jackson. After my last episode on the Dart vote, I had a few people reach out asking to continue the conversation around this topic. So today we're going to keep that conversation going. I'm joined by Peter Young, who is leading the Yes for Dart campaign and is with the Dallas Area Transit Alliance. He's going to help us take a closer look at another perspective as voters in the park cities prepare to head to the polls. Our goal here is just to educate voters. There's a lot of places to read more information about the Dart vote from our friends at People Newspaper. Also, Dallas Morning News has been covering it. So I really encourage everyone to get out there and just learn as much as possible before you vote. Peter, thank you for joining me today.

Peter’s Background And Transit Habit

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Well, let's start with giving a little bit background of you and the ties to our community.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

So I moved here in third grade, uh, and I went to Armstrong Elementary, then to middle the MIS, and then to the middle school and to Highland Park High School. Um, I've moved back here during COVID. Um, like I think a lot of people in the park cities who have kids that go through the system. My parents had a pretty empty house and I didn't want to pay rent in Dallas, so it seemed like an obvious choice, but I haven't really gotten involved with town politics or issues, and this Dart issue has really energized me.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Right, right. Well, um, I know that you are very passionate about it. Can you tell us why that is?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Um, well, so I live just a couple of blocks in Highland Park um from 75. So I live within walking distance of Mockingbird Station. And I think having gone to college in Scotland for a couple of years, we had a town of 13,000 and we had 13 bus routes. So I'm like used to taking transit. And when I moved back here, I felt almost silly not using the transit that was so readily available to me. Um, and I gotta say, I hate Dallas traffic.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Oh gosh, yeah, it has gotten really bad, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yeah.

The Case For Staying In

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Well, you are very passionate about wanting it to stay in the park cities. And early voting is going on this week with, of course, the uh election in early May. Why do you feel like it should remain in the park cities?

SPEAKER_00 2:52

I think that the service Dart provides is something that can't really be replaced. Um I know the cities are looking at certain alternatives, um, but there isn't really an alternative to buses and trains and high capacity transit for when you want to take cars off the road. And on the topic of traffic, our metro area is going to be growing by about 50% in the next 25 years. Um and it's gonna gridlock the entire Metroplex if we don't do anything. And I think Dart is key to solving those problems and also addressing the smog issue. But it's just to abandon our participation in this regional effort feels I don't know, it it feels a bit shameful as because of the wealth that is in our communities.

Hidden Benefits Beyond Ridership Math

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Well, a lot of people feel like we are paying for more than we're getting. How do you respond to those people?

SPEAKER_00 3:48

I think some of those people, I don't think they're ill ill-willed, but I think that they're not accounting for all of the benefits of Dart. Um, so when the No for Dart side talks about what is it,$600,000 per rider on the Preston Road bus, they're excluding all of the services in and around our town. So in University Park, there's the SME shuttles, which are predominantly paid by Dart. It's a complicated contract, but in the in the in the in the total, Dart pays for most of it. Um then there's the bus line on Northwest Highway. That the some of the stops on the southern side are in UP, uh, and those would end, uh the bus would just not stop eastbound. Um that's the fourth busiest bus line in Dart's network. Um and then of course the rail stations that are a mere 200 meters from our town borders. There's we're the only two suburbs that have access to Dart's light rail, all four of their lines within a half mile of our town. Um and I think when you exclude all of those, you're really I'm not gonna say lying, but I I feel it's very not it's not a total accounting of what we'd get from Dart. And one thing I always say to people, do you when you commute on 75, do you really want another 40,000 cars on the road every day? I I think most people would say that's a service that they like.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Right, right. Well, I was gonna ask, what do you feel like people are missing that are looking at it from purely a dollar standpoint?

Governance Reform And Tax Changes

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Um I think that they're missing all of the changes that are coming to Dart as well. Um so Dallas had just agreed to lower their board representation to 45%, and all of the Dart member cities plus Dart and the regional uh council of governments are gonna go to the state next session to revise Dart's charter. Uh and it will give every town their own board seat. So currently we share a board seat. University Park, Highland Park, Addison, and Richardson are all represented by Gary Slagle. And he's been a great board member from my point of view. Um, but I know because of that arrangement, he is principally beholden to Richardson. And he does his best to represent every city. I think he's an honest actor, but I know some people in the town want to see that change, and it is planned to be changed. Um and then secondly, I know the long-term planning is to make Dart not a one cent tax agency, but a 0.75 cent tax agency. And there's a couple ways they're doing that. Um, in regards to 10% of that, it's gonna be paid just by Dart lowering service. And we've already seen that with the GMP that's going to all Dart member cities except for ours and Addison, because we've held our elections. And that was about that's gonna be 10% by the then next to the set by in six years. Um and then the other 15% is gonna be they're going to Dart, Trinity Metro, and DCTA, Denton County transit. Uh they plan on moving their regional rail to a new entity. Reg and the regional rail is the Silver Line, the TRE, the Denton A-Train, and then Trinity Metro's Tex Rail. Right. And those are the those are the lines that go on freight trains, freight tracks. So they're different than the light rail that we we're served by.

GoLink Microtransit And Who Relies

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Okay, okay. Well, let's talk about the services that Dart offers. Um, what do you think you know it's really easy to think, well, I don't use Dart, I don't know anyone that uses Dart, and just not really being aware of the services that they offer. What do you feel like people are overlooking and maybe not aware of?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Um Well, just as residents, I think our town's asked for the microtransit system, GoLink, to be implemented in our town, and it's been expanded multiple times at requests of our town to Dart. Um, and I I don't think people realize how good of a service that is. It's like getting an Uber from one place to another in the park cities. It's door-to-door, to the park cities, to Knox, to the rail station at Mockingbird, and to Love Field. Um, all on your$3 Dart ticket. It's all included in your day pass or three-hour pass. So I think one, we don't take advantage of that service, which is uh very extensive for any suburb. I think only two other suburbs have full town coverage, and we have cowbridge between both towns and beyond. Um and the other two was Farmers Branch and Carrollton, which are also very geographically small. So um and then also the people that we forget about with Dart is Dart serves mostly people that can't afford to own a car. And it really is I know some people say, oh, well, we shouldn't be giving handouts to people, but those people make our economy tick. Um a lot of the reason that Dart's uh busiest bus routes are in the south of Dallas is because of the inland port. Dallas is the biggest inland port per freight and all sorts of stuff in the country. Um and it's a huge job center. Um and connecting people to jobs is just makes everything work. Um it makes your packages cheaper when you get them from Amazon. It does everything. Um and then second, and then oh lastly, um people it's kind of the unseen part of Dart is that they provide paratransit to people who can't, due to disability, can't even take transit normally or drive a car. And I I personally know some people that live outside of the park cities but come to church, they go to school at SMU, they shop, they do all large parts of life are in the city, and disconnecting them I think is unconscionable to me. I don't know. Right. Um it's that's the most vulnerable people in our society.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Right. Well, I'm glad that you talked about both uh Go Link and Paired Transit, because I didn't know about Go Link, and I think a lot of people don't. So I think that's an important part for for people to be aware of. But who do you think is most impacted if these services go away?

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Well, I think primarily it's those riders that I talked about, but also SMU students. Um there's this because the buses, the SMU shuttles, are branded as SMU, uh, people don't realize that those are Dart routes. Um there is a strange contract that I mentioned earlier. Um SMU gets the naming rights to Mockingbird Station, so it's SMU Mockingbird Station. Um they get student passes at, I believe, a 30 no 95% discount. So they pay about$30 for their staff and student passes. Uh, where those passes usually cost around$720. Um, and then I believe the contract says Dart pays the first$300,000 of the cost of running the shuttles. Um, and that is subcontracted from Dart to another company because they wanted to use different buses. The SMU wanted to use different buses than the larger Dart buses.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Right. And they're branded SMU, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

And they're also free to ride. Like I catch it, I live south of SMU, and if I'm not wanting to walk or the weather's bad, or it's 100 degrees in the summer, uh, I will catch the SMU shuttle to Snyder Plaza. I mean, it's free, it's pretty convenient to me, but that's unique because I live around SMU.

SMU Shuttles And Student Impacts

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Right, right. Well, there's a lot of frustration on the cost and the governance, governance. Uh, do you think that those concerns are valid?

Costs Debt And How DART Funds

SPEAKER_00 11:24

I think so. And but I'm not sure that it's the fault of Dart. I think there was when the agency was first created, they wanted to establish a steady revenue stream that would wouldn't be at the whims of politicians. I know in Pennsylvania there is huge controversy. Oh, is the state gonna fund Philly's transit system because they get lots of state funding? But it's every time the legislature meets, they're at the whims of the legislature. Um and then in achieving that, Dart, Dart's structure worked. But originally, and I'm I'm gonna go into some of the bond history and how the debt works here. Um, originally, Dart was not allowed to issue long-term debt. The only debt they could take was short-term commercial paper debt, which has higher interest rates, isn't really as flexible, um, and is kind of just a bad deal for the taxpayer. Um, they could go to a referendum among all people, but referendums asking about debt, they're a tricky subject, especially in Texas, which I would say does lean fiscally conservative. Um, but they failed their first one. Um, and I actually found an article that uh Mayor Beachel's father was part of the effort to defeat that at the state level. Um he was part of the SMART in the 80s. Um and then in 2000, they had another election, and this time they were they won the ability to issue long-term debt. Um, it requires board approval, but it doesn't require voter approval now. Um and that's seen the system expand expeditiously. Um currently, Dart has a large outstanding debt, but they took advantage of the extremely low interest rates during COVID. So they have a 2.9% interest, which if you look about a mortgage, you can't get them below six, half, seven percent nowadays. Um so that large debt number, and that also contributes to the time to pay off that debt, is high, but the interest is not what you'd expect. So Dart made a really smart financial decision there and used it to make lots of capital improvements. And I think going forward, if their goal is to get to a 0.75 agency, it will work a lot better for the towns and offer the ability for Dart to expand. Um I know there have been hints that towns like McKinney and Allen would love to join, but they can't with the current structure.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Got it.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

And the same with Mesquite.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Yeah. Well, what would you say to those that feel like Dart isn't being run efficiently?

SPEAKER_00 14:09

I think there are reasons that that's the case. Um I don't discount them. I mean, I would say that it's improved massively over the last couple of years. Um over the last couple of years, class A offenses I think have dropped 18% annually. So class A offenses are violent offenses. Um and I'm excluding drug possession because although drug possession is a class A offense, I wouldn't say it's the same thing as murder. And I don't think that's that controversial, but um when I talk about class A offenses, I'm talking about those types of offenses. And when people talk about crime on Dart, I Dart has spent a lot of money hiring a lot of police officers, a lot of fair enforcement, but that's in the past year or two. Um and it really is a night-and-day difference. So in the last CEO that recently stepped down, her main focus was not expansion, it was making the service better. And I think they've achieved that. The rider satisfaction is in the last four years, I think, has gone up 40 points, like public opinion uh or rider opinion of how good the service quality is. Um I don't know. I just lots of transit systems have problems, and I think people discount the problems we have on our roads. I mean, 100 people get shot in road rage incidences every year in Dallas, I think. That's what I remember reading. But um I think there's just a danger when you go outside, and when it's visible, it's it weighs on people psychologically, and I I understand that.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Right, right. Well, do you feel like that Dart needs to change anything?

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Um I think generally they do, but I see them in the process of change, and that's why I was a bit confused why all these towns wanted to pull out now, because they're in the process of becoming that 0.75 agency. They're in the process of reforming their board to give every member a vote and lowering Dallas's vote share to 45%, which Dallas has much more than 50% of the population and about 49% of the revenue. So they're taking you could say it's undemocratic their concessions, but they're making these concessions to make the system work. Um and given their focus in the last five years on making the system better rather than expansion, I think they are providing a better service and they aren't going in the right direction.

Risks Of Leaving And Local Traffic

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Well, what do you feel like is the biggest risk if the park cities withdraws from Dart?

SPEAKER_00 16:44

I think one of the bigger risks is we won't have a voice in how the system is shaped. So, like I said, with the governance change, we will have a seat on the board and we can advocate for what we think is correct. Um and Dart's gonna exist if Dart will transit will exist no matter what. And it looks like Dart will exist for many, many, many years to come. Um and with our cities growing, we need to think about how the neighborhood around us looks, um, how it's shaped. Uh, I know people in Highland Park are very anxious about the Knox developments and the traffic that that's inducing. I know that Mockingbird, it can't be expanded, it can't be widened, um, but it's full. It the traffic is full. Um, and it's leading to traffic all across town. And Beverly and Douglas and many of the other cross streets are they see accidents with injuries. Um and it's transit is plays a role in fixing those problems, in my opinion. Um, I'd like to see our town actually ask for bus service along Mockingbird um to relieve traffic. If they could if a bus every 40 minutes can take a thousand cars off the road, that's good. I think that's worthwhile. Um except and I don't think our towns have meaningfully engaged with Dart in that sense.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

So Yeah, right. So what do you feel like people misunderstand the most about Dart?

SPEAKER_00 18:14

I think the biggest thing is they think it's just the bus or that it's just the train. Um I point to their new Silver Line Rail project. A lot of that was a lot of that spending was uh when they had to build the tracks. That's expensive. But they spent hundreds of millions of dollars redoing utility lines, uh increasing the stormwater. Uh so when flooding happens, that they've brought all the stormwater uh infrastructure around the line up to modern standards. Um Dart returns money to cities for road repair on routes that the buses run on because buses are heavy. They do damage the road more than a car's, but uh Dart mitigates that and runs also runs all their buses on arterial roads rather than residential roads, so the the the damage is less uh severe. Um and I think people just don't know the scope of Dart. It is a giant agency. Um, it employs tons of people, it provides a lifeline to people who can't maintain owning a car, which uh the average car costs eleven thousand dollars a year to own, maintain, amortize the cost, that sort of thing. Um it's really and it it also just relieves traffic for the rest of us. Even if you're not using it, you benefit from it. Um I mean there's so many things I I keep going on, but I'm like I every time I pause, I keep thinking of another thing. The air quality standards that we try to do, uh get toward um are helped a lot by Dart. The trains are electric, the buses are natural gas, so they burn clean. I don't know. I just I visit cities around the world and you're never gonna see a s a large city without transit.

What Every Voter Should Do

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Well, before we vote, what is one thing you want every voter to know?

SPEAKER_00 20:02

The one thing I want everybody to at least try in the park cities is the go link. Um just see what the service is like. I know a lot of people say, oh well, I don't use it. Well, try it. Why not? I mean, I I when I first tried it, I was like, okay, this is easier than going I I used it to go downtown a lot. Um and I thought, oh, why don't I just try it? And now I wouldn't want to drive down 75 if I'm going downtown anytime. Um it really is just not as bad an experience as I think people think it is. Um and then also I'd like people to remember all those people that rely on Dart, all the people that use paratransit, all the people that use the SMU shuttles, the students, um, because most of them don't have a voice in the selection. SMU students aren't registered to vote in our town, really. Most of them are registered to vote at their parents' house, or they live across 75 in Dallas and commute into the campus. Um, and a lot of the paratransit users don't have any other choice. That if they don't have access, that's it. And I know the town has some replacement services, but I just have my doubts that that's gonna be sufficient.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Well, Peter, thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge with us. You have been a wealth of knowledge, and I know you're gonna help a lot of people just become more informed in general.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

That's been another episode of the Bubble Lounge. I'm Martha Jackson, and I'll see you next time.