SPEAKER_02: 0:06

Welcome to the Bubble Lounge. I'm Martha Jackson. And if you have lived in the neighborhood for any amount of time and you have kids, more than likely you know who Mr. Donovan is. He is our guest this week, and we were talking on the phone the other day and had a very interesting conversation about embracing the child that you have, not the child that you want. Basically, we're putting a lot of pressure on our kids for academics, athletics, socially. And what we're going to talk about is really learning how to respect your kids and meeting them where they are and not where you're wanting them to be and help them grow and be more fulfilled. I am so excited to welcome back to the show, Mr. Donovan. I wanted to give a personal thank you to our good friend and show sponsor, Kathy L. Wall State Farm Agency. We have known Kathy for more than 15 years, and there is no person we trust more when it comes to insurance than Kathy L. Wall. Kathy is always available to help you find the right insurance for your family needs, whether it's covering your home, auto, or providing a life insurance policy tailored to the unique needs of families in Highland Park. My family trusts Kathy with our insurance, and we hope you will too. Please visit KathyLwall.com to learn more and let her know that Martha from the Bubble Lounge sent you. Mr. Donovan, thank you so much for being here today.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25

Always happy to be here. Always happy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28

Well, there may be some people out there that actually don't know you. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do?

SPEAKER_01: 1:36

A little bit about what I do. Simple version is I get to be the surrogate uncle to all families. That simple. And then a life coach. But uh, you know, I started out with skills and coaching, but it evolved into something more than that. You know, now I'll do more counseling than anything. And um, now that I've done it for 35 years celebration of doing this, I have a little bit of wisdom packed in. So I get to be the uncle status now instead of just the coach.

SPEAKER_02: 2:04

Well, my favorite thing is when I'm driving around the the neighborhood and I see you in a yard working with a kid in the front yard of a house, and it just always makes me laugh. I roll down my window and say, Hey there.

SPEAKER_01: 2:15

Everyone does. It's like it's like the community feels like he's out in the yard again.

SPEAKER_02: 2:20

There he is. He's everywhere. Everywhere. I love it. Well, you and I were talking on the phone the other day, and we ended up having a very interesting conversation. I was like, we got to make this a podcast.

SPEAKER_01: 2:32

I have stories.

SPEAKER_02: 2:34

You really do. You really do. Well, you were we were talking about how you are doing more counseling than coaching right now, and you've always been known for coaching, and then you you've always had this just really amazing insight of being able to kind of figure people out, especially kids, just like the moment that you start spending time with them. It's kind of surreal, actually, to watch.

SPEAKER_01: 2:56

It's like that sight beyond sight setup.

SPEAKER_02: 2:58

It's like you have a superpower.

SPEAKER_01: 3:00

Exactly. Exactly. You just meet people where they are, and that's one of the biggest things I've been able to do. And uh again, a little bit back history, you know. I everyone thinks that was this great football player or what have you know. And touching back on a few episodes that I've done with you guys, I was never the athlete. I was the skinny Steve Urkel kid.

SPEAKER_02: 3:21

I've seen pictures and he's not exaggerating. I mean, you would not recognize the guy.

SPEAKER_01: 3:26

Yeah, no, it's like I'm big and buff, and the kids listen to me and said, because I really think uh per the universe and per my faith and belief, if if I didn't go through the things I went through, the bullying, the teasing, which most people go through, I had a little extra season in that, but it helped me to understand what a lot of kids are going through, and adults even, because we still carry those wounds and scars. Sure. And so that's where now the counseling aspect, because now I see it and I tell people, listen, I've seen this story, okay? Let me save you some time. You know, everyone needs to kind of get their toes wet, but let me save you some time.

SPEAKER_02: 4:06

Yeah, right. Well, one of the things that we were talking about is just this competitive nature of parents. And tell me what you're seeing. Obviously, you've worked with a ton of kids for many, many years. How have you seen this evolve and what's going on right now?

SPEAKER_01: 4:25

Well, we all want the best for our children, we want the best for ourselves, and sometimes we feel that when we're not doing our best, we could do better. However, children don't always have that voice, and they don't have the acumen that we do as adults to say, hey, we're gonna make this choice, I'm gonna try harder, apply harder. It's easy to say after 40 years that, hey, you should do this, you should do that. But again, it's how it lands, it's how it's said, it's how it's presented. For instance, you know, you have families that uh when I get there's chaos. But I get to, as you've seen me work in yards, homes, and everywhere else. How do I get to walk into your home not raise my voice? And the kids are waiting for me next week and they're just like, Don't leave. But I give them a voice and it's like a little bit of understanding, less is more sure. So uh that that's uh forgive me, that's uh what I see. And uh it's just wild. So that's why I do more counseling than anything, to help people understand the child and actually sometimes who they are. Sure. And you end up digging up old wounds and things that they've never talked about. Right. And then so now one of the qualifiers is when I meet new families, I ask them, I go, what would you like to happen? I mean, yes, you saw me in this yard or what have you, that's the motive there. But what would you like to happen? And most can't tell me. They can't it's just mind blowing and like, well, I saw you working with whomever, like Yeah. And that's a different set of circumstances, but what would you like to happen from our relationship that I developed with your family? And it's like oh stunned fish.

SPEAKER_02: 6:19

Well, what are some of the common pressures that you're seeing parents are putting on their kids right now?

SPEAKER_01: 6:25

Obviously, winning is number one.

SPEAKER_02: 6:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 6:28

And that comes at its own certain cost. That's a whole subject in and of itself. But what you're but what I'm seeing mostly is the pressure to win at all costs and you know, apply, apply, apply more pressure. You're gonna do this, do it this way. And the coaching is if there's some hidden agenda and it's like, hey, there should be some fun in this. There's it's not your life. If you want to compete, you should go to an adult league. And uh, you know, our our job is to discipline, teach, and love. But that's not love, that's just abuse.

SPEAKER_02: 7:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 7:07

I mean, if you went to work for a company and they treated you like that, you'd be an HR nightmare. But to your kid, it's try harder. Oh, okay. How does that land? How does it sound? And we have many societal examples of being pushed, sports and movie stars alike, but notable names, and our biggest one is Michael Jackson.

SPEAKER_00: 7:28

Sure.

SPEAKER_01: 7:29

Uh Andre Augusty, um, Brooke Shields, one of 'em, Lindsay Lohan, the list goes on. And uh Venus and Serena Williams, sure, you can have that fame, but it comes at a cost, and not everyone's willing or can afford to pay that cost.

SPEAKER_02: 7:43

Well, what do you think the motivation is for parents to be pushing their kids so hard?

SPEAKER_01: 7:49

Things that they didn't get fulfilled.

SPEAKER_02: 7:51

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 7:52

It's something that we all know uh you know, for my boys, everyone thinks now what they see is everyone sees the movie of Mr. Donovan as an example. But what they don't see or have seen is how this movie was made. I mean, you have on location disasters, you have travel disasters, you have cost overruns and what have you, but this is the end product, and this is years of of battles and good good, bad, and indifferent, and a lot of life lessons involved, and so this is me, and sometimes other families that I work with have the same thing, but they don't know how to compartmentalize it or deal with it. So it comes out their intent is wonderful, is just how it lands. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 8:45

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SPEAKER_01: 9:57

Yeah, it's uh going back on one of our podcasts, thank you again for having me again. You know, we talk about how do you date? You know, you're always dating. You know, I want to brush my teeth, comb my hair, and smell good, and I want to invite you. You know, it's like a buffet. It's like, you don't like the chicken? Okay. How about the fish? You don't like the fish? How about the lamb? You know, options. And I think one of the biggest things is we forget to give people options and recognize that, hey, they have their own feelings as well. And we can get hell bent on, okay, this is the way it should go. This is my movie, this is the way it should go. But it's like, hold up. Um we're the actors in your movie. We don't exactly like the script because it doesn't fit us.

SPEAKER_02: 10:43

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 10:44

And most people have a hard time with that.

SPEAKER_02: 10:46

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Well, what are some of the signs that you've seen with kids that you can that that are obvious signs that um they are being pushed too hard and they are getting burnt out, and you can see the impact on them.

SPEAKER_01: 10:59

Oh, first of all, it's the eye roll, the facial expressions, the physical. You see that right off the bat. So, well, come on, let's go to baseball. It's like watching paint dry. Sure, yeah. And their movement started to get slow because again, as children, they don't have any recourse. Or soccer is my worst or my best example of it. You'll see where the kids are just out in the field. They don't want to be there. And so, you know, they can't walk away, they can't go get in a car, they can't go get Starbucks. So, you know what? For them to shut out what I call the noise, they're just on the field playing with flowers.

SPEAKER_02: 11:36

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 11:37

They're just gonna, you know what, this is how they escape. You know what? There's a doodle bug on the ground. I'm just gonna focus on the doodle bug. I don't want to play soccer, it's hot. And I want a juice box. And you're yelling, and all the parents are yelling loudly. Again, if you worked in an environment like that, it'd be an HR nightmare.

SPEAKER_02: 12:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:02

So that's that's that there.

SPEAKER_02: 12:05

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SPEAKER_01: 13:16

Think about some of the best hotels that you've been to. You become a concierge. I mean, it's like, hey, I saw what you did and I know why you're here. Um or like some of the best waiters on the best restaurant. They know just when to serve you water, when to come back, not to interject, uh to let you lead, or really make a suggestion that may benefit you. Such as, hey, today we have a nice light salad, or you know, it's hot, you don't want a hot food. You know, it's kind of like having the the the wherewithal to know beforehand and just think before say, pause before send and think about how it lands. You know, just take a deep breath and go, hey, is it okay if I play soccer with you, or hey, I saw this that I thought you might like. Would you like to try it? It's how you say it. That's that's one of the biggest and easiest things to do. It's just understand how it lands. How does it sound to you? I mean, I'm talking to you nice, I can hey Martha, I'm gonna come do a podcast. Oh it's like, okay. Well, hey Martha, I'd love to be on your podcast again. And I think it'd be great if you had me on, or is it okay if I come into another show with you sometime? And uh it's almost just hey, being almost like being vulnerable and just open to hey, I'm I'm going with the flow. And most people they feel that if they go with the flow or be vulnerable, they lose control. And it's quite the opposite. Control is the ability to be vulnerable and understand where you are in this space.

SPEAKER_02: 14:58

Well, one of the things that we were talking about before we started recording was embracing the kid that you have, not the kid that you want. And I thought that that was a really interesting statement because I've seen it firsthand is you know, football is a little bit popular here in Texas. And a lot of parents are really pushing to have that football player, and you know, sometimes it's just not the right sport for the kid.

SPEAKER_01: 15:24

You know, um, I'll touch on this one. Uh on football and baseball as well. If you look at the makeup, genetic makeup of most baseball teams, where are they from? Cuba, Dominican. Chances of you making it to it's like, uh, yeah, you gotta be really good. Football is no different. It's a high impact sport. It's uh an injury sport. And then one of the things I've seen, we have high schoolers, junior high kids that are already in full knee braces, left and right knee, elbow braces, left and right, and they haven't hit high school. So my thought process is by the time he finishes college, and let's say he he, she that plays sports go on, they may not even be able to hold their children because their bodies are broken. What kind of quality of life are they gonna have? For what?

SPEAKER_02: 16:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 16:25

And we've all seen the scary, slippery slope of what happens if you don't have the wherewithal or means to have physical therapy after all those said injuries. Right. It is not a good look. And in the case of others, it's yeah. It's it's saddening, but um but there has to be a balance and it should be a balance. Support 100%, but when you're done, you're done. And uh I feel that a lot of parents don't give their children an opportunity to have an open voice.

SPEAKER_02: 16:56

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SPEAKER_02: 18:08

That peace of mind says it all. If your family needs support at home, visit CambridgeCaregivers.com or call 214-649-9922 to learn more. Well, I have a scenario in a run by you. This is an interesting one. I had a friend whose uh son tried a whole lot of different sports, tying in with your buffet analogy, and I always like that you use that. They tried all the sports, and it just didn't really seem like being an athlete was going to be his thing. So she accepted that. They stopped the sports for a number of years, and then all of a sudden, as the kid is in middle school, he's watching his peers and he's seeing that the quote unquote kill cool kids are the sports guys. And he tells his mom, you should have forced me to play football.

SPEAKER_01: 18:57

No.

SPEAKER_02: 18:57

It was his words, you should have forced me. And she said, Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01: 19:02

I agree with her. Because that's just mere projection.

SPEAKER_02: 19:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 19:10

Uh, with my very own boys, what we did do is we offered a buffet. Um, my wife and I at the time, we you know, you get to choose something each semester. You didn't have to do it, but you were gonna choose some activity. I don't mind devil's workshop, right? Uh, but what you weren't gonna do, uh the non-negotiable in the house was you just weren't gonna be idle. It could be tennis, it could be art. But for the social, and it was more of, hey, one day you might go to school and even now my boys did soccer and uh football, uh uh swimming, but to this day, neither one of them plays those sports. Jordan went into band and now he's in Seattle, and his biggest thing is hockey. Hockey. Who knew? And we didn't but we didn't have those options at the time, you know. So he's almost 30 and uh Justin's twenty-three, but uh they both love hockey. Now I took him to a few games, no interest, didn't force it down their throat. We had tickets, and I would have been willing to do it. But they could care less about any of the sport realistically as grown men, and like, Dad, come to the hockey game with us. And I'm like, sh uh uh sure. But hockey? Okay. But again, that ties into what to uh having a buffet and choices, but no, standing your ground and saying no to the the the child that says you should have forced me. No, no, that's not how that works out. Because again, it has to be their idea.

SPEAKER_02: 20:40

So when you and I were talking on the phone the other day, you were talking about counseling the parents specifically, and I asked you, do they actually listen to you and follow through with your recommendations?

SPEAKER_01: 20:52

They do. They do. And because they see that it works. And it's the it's again, it's how it lands. Um lately, I've gone back as things have turned over. When I work with my newer families, they're like they notice, they go, You never change your voice. I go, why? Why should I yell at you? I'm not gonna yell at you. Now I'll yell to say, Hey, good job, and hey, you know, you're about to run out to the street or something like that. But no, why why we're having fun and I want to see you win in a positive way and it's more than just winning on the field, it's winning at life. And and you're setting up you're setting up them to be successful and self confident. When you're confident, you can do all sorts of things. When you're not, that's when it becomes obsessive. And that's when you fixate on one thing that you know you have ultimate control over. And you'll see some of the parents, Well, I well well, I'm gonna do tennis. Well, honey, your arms are short like T Rex. You might m you might make the net, but no, they foster that by leading by example. And that's how you do it. Um I'm gonna go play uh pla again, it goes back to dating. All the things that we've tied from earlier podcasts, it all ties back into this as well. How do you date? How do you lead by example? You set the example. Uh one of the things I've done is I've asked uh a lot of my clients, and now it's become standard, and I tell them, You're not the leader of a family. Your family's a business. So you have a company culture. What is your company culture? What is your mission statement? Run it like a business. The person that may be at the front desk may not be suited for the front desk. The person that's in sales may not be suited for sales. So you find what fits them and meets them where they are. You might even have to switch. I've seen it firsthand that hey, she's good at sales and very organized, but she's not in sales and he's good at front desk organization. Switch them, company grows. Understand the person, and that comes down to understanding the person, the child that you have, and even yourself, you may not be an early riser. There's no law that says you have to get up at 6 a.m. There is no law that you may not be that person, and that's okay. But if you understand who your team is, then you put every all the players in the right place. Watch the growth.

SPEAKER_02: 23:31

Okay, that is a really interesting way to put it, and I definitely want to incorporate that into your house. And you've got me thinking, I think I need to fire the toilet paper stock boy because he's not doing his job.

SPEAKER_01: 23:43

Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's you asked yourself, where am I here and I want to go there. What is it gonna take for all of us to pitch in? Um you know, we just growing up as a military child and seeing different things from different military families, the things that we have now as a society back during the 70s and 80s, we did not have. So I got to see a lot of the moms that were by nature single moms because the fathers were gone. Right. So I get it.

SPEAKER_02: 24:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 24:19

They were married, but they were single moms. Okay. But in this case, you were my mom. You know, the lady next door was my mom. It was a community. And I learned from that, you know, there's a priority of, hey, we're gonna do this to be respectful of yourself, respectful of others, respectful of your team, and definitely respectful of yourself, and you have those core values, and that helps.

SPEAKER_02: 24:43

So, Mr. Donovan, you have been recovering from cancer for a few years now, and we were talking about your holistic approach to health and all the benefits that you've seen from it.

SPEAKER_00: 24:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 24:53

And I just wanted to kind of rip uh tie that in with our kids because our kids have a pretty bad diet these days.

SPEAKER_01: 25:00

Well, I can speak firsthand. So, first of all, um I'm thankful that I'm still able to do what I do 35 years into this, and I'm still teaching some of the children, now adults, that I taught when I first started, I now teach their children. So I've crossed into that threshold. But one of the things I have seen that's different from when I started to now is is diet. And with me having my own health journey and being completely holistic now, uh, people see me and they're like, Man, you're beefed up, you're working out. No, it's good nutrition and good diet, and watching specifically what I eat because those things are factors. Uh, a simple version is this your body is a Ferrari and it needs premium fuel. You can put regular lead in it, unleaded in it. It'll work, but it won't perform.

SPEAKER_00: 25:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 25:49

Right. It'll go, but it won't go. And then it causes all sorts of issues. It doesn't get in the gear, it's sluggish. Sounds like some of our children, right? Well, we get to control the fuel that goes in their bodies, and that goes a long way for your health and maintenance. And that's the difference between you being done in five years and eating another one, or you're running 300,000 miles, which I kind of feel that after 35 years. I think I'm about half a million miles, and I still got another half million to go. Willingly and wanting to, but again, it comes down to diet.

SPEAKER_02: 26:26

Yeah, and nutrition. It's so important. And you you've seen some really great benefits from the changes you've been making.

SPEAKER_01: 26:33

Yes. And when you think about some of the things that we um, and I won't preach to anyone about this one, but just take a look at what if you can't pronounce it.

SPEAKER_02: 26:44

Probably doesn't need to be in your body.

SPEAKER_01: 26:46

Probably doesn't need to be in your body. I mean, sometimes we know more about the school choices that we've made. We know more about the car options that are on the car, we know where our travertine tile comes from, where it's sourced. Tell me I'm wrong. And uh I would like for everyone just to be aware of what they're placing in front of their mouth, and that's the one choice you do have control over of hey, I get to control what I do eat, okay, and and what goes in my body because it's my own temple that will carry me for many, many, many years. And you have to take care of it, and I'm a living testament of that. And uh I can't say enough about it. And so when it comes to the children, I want them to have the best nutrition they could possibly have. Now, granted, sure. You can go to a party and have a bite or two of this, or even a lick of ice cream. You have to live. You're gonna live. And and you should live, but some stuff you just shouldn't put in your body.

SPEAKER_02: 27:43

You always have the best analogies. I love the way that you you frame things.

SPEAKER_01: 27:47

I was a weird kid that had, you know, I had no friends, so I'd have made conversations. Call my sister, she'll she'll verify everything.

SPEAKER_02: 27:55

Well, do you have any uh final thoughts or advice to pass along to parents to make sure that they are raising healthy, well-adjusted kids?

SPEAKER_01: 28:02

Yes. First of all, you don't have to be their friend, and boundaries are good ones. Healthy boundaries. Healthy, and I stress healthy as in mental, emotional, physical boundaries are healthy and good. Boundaries are good. However, there's a lot of gray because that gives you or that gives insight for interpretation and for them to make a few mistakes, but the core boundaries you should have. Again, your family is a business and you have a mission statement, and you will have much success when you have those core values in your company, i.e., your family.

SPEAKER_02: 28:44

Well, that is perfect. Thank you so much for being here today. I love all the information you shared. I think you're gonna help a lot of us out there.

SPEAKER_01: 28:51

It's always a pleasure.

SPEAKER_02: 28:53

Well, that's been another episode of the Bubble Lounge. I'm Martha Jackson, and I'll catch you next time.