SPEAKER_04: 0:06

Welcome to the Bubble Lounge. I'm Martha Jackson, and today's episode is a little different. It's about grit, it's about grace, and it's about the moments in life that test who we really are. I've chosen three stories from the past interviews that have stayed with me long after the microphones were turned off. Not because they were easy, but because they were honest. Each guest faced adversity in a very different way. Each one found strength when they needed the most. And each story reminds us that courage can look quiet and resilience can look ordinary. You're gonna hear from a former spy who tracked down terrorists, a legendary coach who rebuilt teams and lives through leadership and grit, and a woman who took unimaginable loss and created something beautiful from it. These stories are honest, they're emotional, and they're incredibly inspiring. Let's begin. Our first story is from someone whose life sounds like a movie, but whose journey was anything but easy. Tracy Walder served in both the CIA and the FBI. She's a New York Times bestselling author, and her story is about standing up after being knocked down and choosing strength when it would have been easier to walk away.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15

Here's Tracy Walder. I never really had too many problems either, you know, overseas being a female. I think we misunderstand like what cover is. And so the reality is, is, you know, females are overseas. Females are serving in these roles. I don't have to change my appearance. There's no question that I'm an American woman with blonde hair, right? There's there's no question. And so you kind of work around that. And the only country um I had an issue in was a North African country where they were, you know, calling me Barbie and just not nice names. But I think it was less about me and more that they were mad at our station chief and then just chose to sort of take it out on me. Um, I don't know. But at CIA, we look at the gathering of intelligence. I don't know if this is boring for folks, but intelligence, we view that as acceptable for males and females. If you think about it, you're just you're using a lot of critical thinking skills, right, in that job. But I think in law enforcement, we look at that as a very male-dominated position. And so I think part of the problem is the role pop culture plays too, and you know, in it and what we see in people having these jobs.

SPEAKER_04: 2:25

Well, that brings me to the fact that, you know, in Hollywood, they always portray spies, female spies, in a certain way where they have the high heels on, the tight sexy dress, you know, the bond girls. The honey pot. So are you telling me it's not like that?

SPEAKER_02: 2:39

No. And I mean, yes, the honey pot trope, right, has been around for, gosh, since the 50s, right? 60s, I don't know. Um, as you mentioned, like with the old kind of James Bond um movies. And no, we don't do that. At the CIA, that's illegal. Maybe other services do, um, but we we definitely don't do that.

SPEAKER_04: 3:00

Well, speaking of the way women dress, I know that you were kind of given a hard time in one of your jobs based on the suit that you were wearing. And I want to talk more about that because I find that so fascinating.

SPEAKER_02: 3:13

So um, I left the CIA. I uh not because I hated it. I just I didn't want to be overseas anymore. I'm still really good friends with people there. I had the best bosses. I mean, they were males and they were incredible. Um, my friends were bridesmaids at my wedding. I mean, I'm close to people there. I just, I did not want to live overseas anymore. And that's not something that's ever gonna change. The agencies should be collecting intelligence overseas, right? That is their job. And so I thought, okay, I'm still really passionate about like the mission of counterterrorism, but how can I do that and just be here, like not stationary, but like static in one place in the United States. And so I thought, well, why don't, like anyone else, like let's just apply to the FBI. And so I did. Um, and I left the CIA on, you know, Friday. I started, I had my Quantico report date, you know, on a Monday. And I did not think that there would be any difference because why would there? But I think part of me was probably naive too. Um, and so I started, you're you're kind of almost in a like a college classroom when you first start at Quantico and you introduce yourself and you sort of start to go around and talk about where you came from. I think the other thing, aside from being a female that I didn't factor was at the time how much the FBI and CIA hated each other. They're very upset with each other. And so I think that was sort of a loaded issue that I didn't expect. And so we started introducing ourselves. I said who I was, I said, you know, where I came from. And um, the instructor, the head instructor was like, there's no way that you actually work there. And I'm like, wait, they came there and did my background check. Like, you definitely know that I work there. And he started sort of almost giving me a hard time. And so your first module at Quantico is interviewing, which is like super basic. I think they're probably just easing you into stuff. Um, and you don't wear your uniform when you do that. You have a uniform at Quantico. Um, you wear, they want you to wear a suit. Great. So I just wore the same suit that I mean, I think I had briefed the Saudis in. Like, I mean, this was not a controversial suit, but I really liked it. It was so cute. Anywho, I wore the suit and um the uh I got pulled into my supervisor's office and he said that I needed to apologize to that particular module instructor. You have a head instructor for all your different modules. And I was like, oh my God, what did I do? You know, did I do something wrong when I was practicing interviewing victims or, you know, those kinds of things? And he said, No, no, no, you need to apologize to him for the way you made him fill in your suit. And I was like, what? And I think, listen, a lot of people give me a lot of flack because like I did apologize. Um, but the problem is, is like you have to put yourself in that situation. First of all, I was very young. And second of all, I kind of just wanted to get out, right? Like, let me go get through this really not fun time at Quantico, and then hopefully it won't be like that um when I leave Quantico. And so I get it. I understand now at 46 that I should not have apologized, but did um at the time. So, how exactly did you make this guy feel? I don't really know. Um, I didn't, I don't think I asked for like more information. I think, you know, when you're in a state of just like shock, you I think you can get either angry, right, and start like kind of yelling and screaming and being defensive, or you just get like really quiet and then think about later, oh gosh, all the things I should have said. I just had gotten quiet and just like wanted to get out of there, I think was sort of how I felt.

SPEAKER_04: 6:36

Well, I'm just sitting here thinking, like, if I worked at the FBI or anywhere in corporate America for that matter, and I work with this man, Doug, and he just looks like such a man, and and he's just making me feel this certain way. Like, and I and I I go to my supervisor and say, Doug, I just can't work with this guy. He's just too much of a man. He needs to change his clothes. Like, what is Doug supposed to wear now? And like, would anyone take me seriously? They wouldn't mind. They would not. I would be laughed right out of there, right? Yes. That's crazy. Yes. Like, I just can't even imagine. And I feel like I know who you are, and I'm sure your suit was not, you know, anything revealing or never been known to be a revealing dresser. It's just not who I am. Yeah, I can't imagine. Hey, Park City's families, we all feel that pinch of rising home insurance, don't we? But there is a solution, and it's closer than you think. Meet Kathy Lwall State Farm Agency. She's not just our trusted show sponsor, she's also the expert you need to navigate these unpredictable insurance waters. Why get lost in a maze of policies and rates? Kathy has a knack for simplifying it all. Call 214-350-2692 or stop by Kathy Lwall.com to schedule a meeting. She's ready to review your homeowner policy and pinpoint where you could be saving more money right now. We trust Kathy wholeheartedly. And once you chat with her, you'll see why. It's not just about rates, it's about trust, expertise, and peace of mind. So don't let rising homeowner insurance costs catch you off guard. Contact Kathy Lwall State Farm Agency now at 214-350-2692 or visit Kathy Lwall.com. With Kathy L. Wall on your side, you'll have an agent you can trust and help secure your family's future. Well, so tell me more about your work at TCU. I love that you're working with college-age kids, and I bet you are just such an inspiration to them.

SPEAKER_02: 8:31

I don't know about that, but I love it. So I work in their um department of criminology and and uh criminal justice and the other faculty, the chair, the students, it's honestly awesome. Um I didn't really have a Texas team to root for because I'm I'm USC Transition is where I went to school. And so I guess TCU has sort of become my Texas team, if you will. But it is, I love it. I teach intro to criminal justice. Um, and then when I have time, I teach a course on domestic terrorism. It just depends what they have in that like rotating schedule. Um, but the students are incredible. I mean, I just helped one. Um, she went to a career fair for the CIA at TCU's campus. And so she and I are kind of texting and I'm helping her with her application and all of that to go through. And she keeps moving through all the different she keeps making it. So she's doing she's doing really great. Like so to be able to see that um is pretty, pretty cool.

SPEAKER_04: 9:26

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm from TCU. Most of my family went to I mean I'm from Fort Worth, is what I meant to say. Most of my family went to TCU. It's a great school. It really is. Yeah. That's a great, that's a great gig that you have. And I know you're making a big impact on these these kids. Well, so obviously you have been in many situations that most of us would find quite fearful. Tell us about that. Do you have any tips for those of us that are struggling with our own fears and just any mind tricks that you can pass along to us?

SPEAKER_02: 9:57

That's a hard question because it's big, right? Right. Um, in my opinion, I think the one thing we do, not wrong, but one of the things that obviously has helped me is, you know, at FBI, you have a something called Hogan's Alley. And it's where you practice something called situational awareness. You know, we talk about like just brute force, right? But it's actually more than that. And so Hogan's Alley puts you in difficult situations with paid actors and paid simulation weapons, and they shoot at you and you do not have anything on. Um, and they curse at you, they spit at you, they do all of the things, and you are in maybe you're responding to a robbery, maybe you're being carjacked, maybe you're being, and they put you in all of these situations on purpose to make you have a different response. And that is what I'm incredibly grateful for because that response is what helps me in a lot of difficult situations. I think where we sometimes don't react in an effective manner, in my opinion, is that like kind of fight or flight. We let our anxiety overpower us, right? In a situation and we almost become tunnel vision and our heart starts beating way too fast and we can't calm down. And so we freeze, right? That seems to be a response that I see. Or we become hysterical. That seems to be a response that I see. And what I have noticed is in those situations, I don't. And I think a lot of it is because of that training that I received. Um, but I think, you know, the biggest thing, and I could give you a funny anecdote, which I think viewers will or listeners will really understand, because it's definitely our community related. Um, I was actually, this was three or four four years ago. Um, I was on my way to a dinner for Litfest. Um so it was like maybe seven o'clock at night, I think. And it I think it was January-ish or February. So obviously it was dark. Um, and I I I live on a corner. And so I was backing my car out. Um, and I had my co-author with me because she was in town, so we're gonna hang out and go to this dinner. And so I'm backing my car out, and a car is going north, so towards me, kind of slows down for me to like back out. So I back out, and then the car is like following me and keeps following me. And I was like, this is super strange. And so I hit Beverly. Um, so I'm sure everyone knows where that is. So I hit Beverly, a stop sign there, and I was like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna turn on my indicator, but I'm just gonna turn and like see what happens. Right. And so I didn't turn on my indicator and I turned and the car followed me. And so I started getting more and more concerned. And so I stopped really quick and made a left onto a different street. And then I just started gunning it like towards mocking bird. Had there been HPPD, like right there, I definitely would have been pulled over. And all of a sudden, my um like the Bluetooth in my car, right, starts ringing. And it's my husband. So maybe he's home, like coming home early from work, whatever. So I answer it and he's like, babe, it's me. I'm behind you. Oh my gosh. I just wanted to say bye. And I was like, you can't just follow me. And I couldn't see his car. He drives a black car. There was just no way I could see, make out like what the vehicle was.

SPEAKER_04: 13:18

Oh my gosh, that is not the outcome I was expecting at all. Like, I was like in the story.

SPEAKER_02: 13:23

No, it was my husband.

SPEAKER_04: 13:25

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SPEAKER_04: 14:11

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SPEAKER_01: 15:00

Well, there's two things. There's one family first. My oldest daughter, Janet, uh, moved down here two years ago, uh, got married in Illinois. We have a house in Illinois where we're all from, and uh had her had our grandson 14 months ago. So that that was a big deal. And uh neither of them are from here. So to come down and give them some family presence right here in in Dallas was huge. And I've been coming down here for like the last 16 years with a bunch of the Duke alums and and Hunter Henry going on an annual hunting trip at his ranch in and uh uh in Coriol County. So really, really enjoyed our visits to Dallas. And um, so I think those two things had a huge piece. And then the Highland Park job came open, and it was like my wife and I, you know, you know, 40 years of doing this, you know, on leap of faith, let's go, and you know, here we are, here we are.

SPEAKER_04: 15:57

What's been the biggest adjust adjustment to coming to Highland Park? I would imagine it's quite a bit different than all the other areas you've worked in.

SPEAKER_01: 16:04

Well, the thing, uh not being in the building coaching. So I only see the guys, the kids during practice. Or if I have or you know, I see them in Snyder Plaza or I'm not in in the high school. In in college, you see them in the weight room, you see them in the cafeteria, you see them going to class, um, you see them in study hall. You know, you they drop by the office during the day. You know, you can shoot the breeze with them. You know, they're sitting there watching film, you know, in the conference room. So that that was a big adjustment for me, not having as much contact with uh the players as I did in in college. But the one of the great things I've really enjoyed is just the impact that you can have on this age group, you know, the 14 to 18-year-old. I've really enjoyed that. And, you know, kind of you know, mentoring some of these guys, you know, getting involved with their lives, as I mentioned, away from the field, you know, uh academically, um, what what their their career path, um, you know, dealing with them and family issues, you know, I've done a lot of that, a lot more of that because the families are right here. You know, our families in college are so many of them are out of state. So there's there's been a lot of that stuff and and just being here, you know, for for the for the boys 24-7.

SPEAKER_00: 17:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 17:25

You know, we have a rule. When when I text them, they respond immediately. But on the other hand, when they need me, I'm there immediately as well.

SPEAKER_04: 17:34

That's amazing. That's so great. Well, how do you approach working with high schoolers versus college guys?

SPEAKER_01: 17:41

I think the big thing, our theme was to begin a year ago, is that I wasn't gonna tone it down. They were gonna tone it up. So, you know, we we have treated our our players at Highland Park like Division I student athletes. We've held them to a very high standard uh in in and a very professional approach, and uh amazingly they've responded for the most part. The discipline, um, the the confidence, the accountability. You know, young men want to be held accountable. They want to. They want to be led. They want to lead. And just providing all those ex examples, and then when they reach these things in life, the confidence that they receive moving forward. And and you know, I'm a huge you know, you get these guys as young boys, you turn them loose as young men. And that's been our our theme for a long, long time here.

SPEAKER_04: 18:36

Well, I can definitely tell. We uh had the captains on just a couple of weeks ago, and I was telling you before we started recording just how impressed we were with them. They had such confidence. You could tell that they just had very strong work ethics, they spoke the world of you, they absolutely love playing lacrosse and being a part of this program. And it just it really is a reflection of everything that you're doing there.

SPEAKER_01: 18:58

We bring tremendous humility to our kids here. I talk about all the time a great man is a humble man. And, you know, we don't we don't talk about ourselves, you know, we don't beat our chests, you know, we don't, you know, it's not all about us. We're, you know, we sit in the background. Let everybody else talk about us. You know, let's just let's just work on things that we can control and being a great man, a humble man, being a gentleman, you know, we talk about that all the time. You know, you go to uh school, and I've seen this a couple times. Like there'll be uh one of our guys will walk through a door, right? There'll be a person 30 feet behind him. He'll hold the door till that person goes through. You know, and and I'm a I'm a huge gentleman guy with with our boys, you know, a scholar in the classroom, you know, a gentleman off the field, but on Saturday afternoon, nobody is more competitive than our kids. So we gotta have all three.

SPEAKER_04: 19:59

Well, I love. That well, I I can confirm everything you're saying. I have a freshman that has been playing lacrosse for only a couple of years now, and he's constantly quoting things that you say. Now, Coach Pressler says this, and he's just such a man of integrity. His word is his word. You know, once you give your word, there's no backing down. And so he hears you loud and clear, and I love that.

SPEAKER_01: 20:22

It's um nothing uh it's been the same theme for a bunch of different spot uh spots here, stops here, but the same theme for for 40 years.

SPEAKER_04: 20:32

Well, we love hearing underdog stories here in the Bubble Lounge. And I wanted to ask you if you've ever had an instance of a player that maybe didn't quite have the skills that you would normally look for, but had just something special that you recognized within them that you felt like you could help turn around and turn them into an amazing lacrosse player.

SPEAKER_01: 20:51

There's a couple of those come to mind, but this is something I've said to our players in the past. Like, you know, any coach that says that they don't have favorites in a way is is is not telling the truth. And my favorites are hardly ever the stars. My favorites are the underdogs. My my favorites are the guys who overcame adversity. Those are the guys that I root for. And, you know, we have uh one in particular, our our 1997 uh co-captain of Duke, Tim Spino. Um never never saw the field in four years, elected captain by his peers, and being kind of a non-player on Saturday afternoon, and the job that he led, how he led that team from um you know, from the bench, from the locker room, off the field was was off the charts. And and another thing back to you know the loyalty piece we talk about, Tim Spino has been a major donor to every stop that the old coach has been in his entire career. And and we have a bunch of those Duke guys that are HP donors as well.

SPEAKER_04: 22:02

I've heard you say that before. I mean, again, that speaks volumes for them to follow your career along the way and to be donors at each of your organizations you've been involved with, that is incredible.

SPEAKER_01: 22:13

Well, it's it's it's anything else, Martha. Like you you want loyalty in life, you gotta give it first. And a lot of people talk about loyalty, and uh, you know, we say this to the boys. So many times loyalty is lip service. You know, when they're loyal till things get hot. They're loyal till they face adversity. You know, when we our gr our crew, these Highland Park kids, when we face adversity, we meet it head on. And you know, again, just just part of you know building these high school young men into uh into tremendous gentlemen, tremendous scholars, and very, very successful guys when they leave us.

SPEAKER_04: 22:52

Well, how do you inspire players to be their best, especially at the high school age, because you're getting them at a little bit of an awkward age when I always say, you know, the brain isn't fully developed, sometimes the best choices aren't being made, best decisions aren't being made. How do you inspire this group of kids?

SPEAKER_01: 23:09

Well, I think you you spend a lot of time as best you can really get to know them individually. And and I could tell you, 40 years of coaching, the old Newt Rockney days, the Vince Lombardi days, you know, of screaming at kids and and putting them down, and th those days are over with me. Are are we tough on them? Uh yeah. Uh do we hold them accountable? Yeah. But you know, there's some guys that you can you can jump their back and you're gonna get a response. There's some guys you do that and they're gonna, you know, they're just gonna melt. And and for you as a coach to use all your techniques, you gotta know the young man you're you're dealing with here. And you know, there's so many techniques you have as a coach to, you know, like for me at the end of the day, I'm always citing uh the last couple kids on the bench. Everybody knows that um uh John Allen's a star. Everybody knows Wesley Allen, uh Wesley Iverson's a star. Quinn Gordon's a star. They don't we don't, I don't need to acknowledge them. Those those other guys, Bo Shem Beckler, one of my all-time mentors, mentors at University of Michigan, Michigan, you coach the last five players on the roster harder than you coach the top five. Because you're coaching morale. And so you're you're always you're building up those other guys. And and and those are the guys we talked about before in my world have become my favorites over the years. Those guys who've overcome adversity, been too small, not fast enough, not strong enough, that somehow hung in there and persevered, and that's what I get like emotional about that. Those are the guys that are uh mean the most to me in this profession.

SPEAKER_04: 24:56

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SPEAKER_03: 26:00

Oh, sure. I I imagine that many in our neighborhood are familiar, but for those that are not, um our family, like many, were flying um driving home from Colorado for spring break. Uh, we do the drive in one day. We were about two hours away from home. Um, my husband was driving, and our three children, Sean, Connor, and Molly, and our dog, Allie, were in the car. Um, and a driver uh lost control, um, crossed over the median and hit our car head on. Um, that resulted in the car um flipping over, catching in flame, caught being caught um engulfed in flames. And um my oldest Sean, uh oldest son Sean was um transported by helicopter to Wichita Falls. My daughter Molly, um myself, my son Connor, and my husband were taken to Vernon Hospital. Um, unfortunately, Molly did not survive the accident. My boys and I were in the ICU for about a month. Um, and if you look at that vehicle, it doesn't make sense how any of us survived. Um, but it's also difficult for me to understand why she did not survive. And so when that all happened, um, you know, I think it was uh our community really again showed the importance of being there. And so um people tied pink ribbons on trees, they did a visual in my front yard. Um, unfortunately for me, I was in the hospital, so I didn't get to see all these pink ribbons when they were initially placed on trees. But um, even when I got discharged from the hospital a month later, when I drove in our neighborhood for the first time, going to church and seeing the pink ribbons, it really took my breath away to see so many people love and support our family, especially people that I had never met before. So right, right.

SPEAKER_04: 28:02

Well, your situation was a little bit different and that you were in the hospital for a whole month. What was it like? Just all the uncertainty you're fighting for it with your own injuries. Everyone in your family had their own unique situations that they were fighting for. What was that experience like?

SPEAKER_03: 28:18

Um, you know, it's it's interesting. Um, my husband Mike and I, we had very different experiences in the sense that he remembers the entire accident. I don't remember three or four days of my life. Um, he had to um tell me two or three different times that Molly was gone because I don't remember being told that. Um, it was also difficult for me because I was in um at Baylor and my boys were in Fort Worth at children's. And so trying to be there for my boys, I couldn't be. And then um Mike had to go back and forth, and he was very fortunate. Again, this is where I feel like we saw our community step up in that he was not able to drive, and people would volunteer shifts to drive him out to Fort Worth so that he could be there for the boys. And then we had friends that would just spend the night with him, with the boys in the ICU. Um, and then I also had a very, very dear friend of mine who completely took charge, my friend Mandy, um, had a schedule so that every night somebody was with me in the hospital. And um, I just again, it was it was a different experience in the sense that we were all trying to recover from injuries while still grieving the loss of Molly. So I feel like it was on one hand, there was a lot of distraction because we were all trying to figure out how to physically heal. And then, and then once we got released from the hospital, then came the part of planning her service. And so it was a little bit different than parents hearing the news of the floods and then going down. And then I I think I I'm not saying one is good or or better, but there is something I think when you're you are distracted by other things that the the grief kind of gets pushed to the side. Sure. So whereas with all these parents that found out about the floods, it it was immediate.

SPEAKER_04: 30:09

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SPEAKER_03: 31:28

Sure. I I think the biggest thing that I've learned through all of this, and again, I'm learning every single day. Um, the thing that I've learned is that everybody grieves differently. And there's not one right way to grieve. You have to like my husband and I have learned to understand that I will talk about Molly all day long, multiple times a day. And he is a little bit more reserved about it. It but it's it's too raw and too painful for him to talk about things. And not to say that one of us loved her more deeply, it's just that each person is going to process grief differently. And so I feel like I have learned through all this and I continue to learn that the thing that has helped me the most is finding other parents who have lost a child. Right. Because until you experience that loss, there's no words or casserole or flowers that are really going to resonate with you than when someone else can say, I know exactly what that feels like.

SPEAKER_04: 32:28

That makes total sense. Yeah. Right. Because you know, somebody who hasn't gone through the same thing, there's absolutely nothing that they can do or say, even though they mean well. Yes. You just like having that person that you can relate to.

SPEAKER_03: 32:41

Yes. And you were able to find plus, yeah, I would say I probably have met 12 different people.

SPEAKER_04: 32:46

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03: 32:47

And um, I I um am so grateful for each one of them because um they helped me through some of the hardest of days, you know, being able to just have a conversation, whether it's at dinner or on the phone, and just say, it's really hard right now. And you know what they're feeling. And then for me, it's also been very helpful to be able to return that to them, you know, when they text me and say it's, you know, the anniversary of my son's death, you know, and and to just to honor each one of those children. And so for me, with these families that just experienced this devastating loss, I felt a true calling to be want to help whatever way I could. So I immediately found the green table class and made sure that our whole block was covered with with green ribbons. Because again, I feel like for me, like even to this day, if I see a pink ribbon on a tree, it just puts a smile on my face. And I think it's just that we need to, whatever way we're capable of doing it, we need to be there for these families. Right, right.

SPEAKER_04: 33:49

Well, I liked what you said. It's just it's so important for everyone to know that everyone grieves differently. And when you said that you like to talk a little bit more than your husband does, it just kind of made me laugh to myself because I was at the service for Molly.

SPEAKER_02: 34:02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04: 34:02

And I remember when you were all were up there, and I which I just kept thinking to myself, there's no way I could be up there right now. You wanted to talk, and he almost had to pull you away. Yeah. And you guys kind of laughed up there, which I thought was really cute. But I think it's so important to know that everyone deals with things in a different way. Sure.

SPEAKER_03: 34:20

Sure. And again, there's not one right or wrong answer, but um it's just to just be mindful and just to support, you know, sometimes you don't even have to say anything, you just have to be present for that person.

SPEAKER_04: 34:33

Right. And that's exactly what Chris Garata said in last week's episode is you know, none of us have the words, the right words to say. Just being there, just being present for your friends and your family and the people in your life just means so much to them more than trying to, you know, fix their pain. Sure.

SPEAKER_03: 34:51

And I think that's just a natural human response of, I want to fix it. I want to make it all better. So I'm gonna show up with flowers, I'm gonna show up with, you know, food, I'm gonna do all these things. And not to say that that is not appreciated and and people don't, you know, need those things. But I think again, it's just being able to know that there are no right words, but always honoring that child and honoring that family and just being there, showing up and just sitting there as you cry or as you look through photos or as you talk about your child, having that just fellowship is just so, so important.

SPEAKER_04: 35:30

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, I also had a friend that lost her son a few years ago, and I remember just seeing I was around her quite quite a bit, and I just remember seeing the pain in her eyes and just the sadness. And I thought to myself, how are you ever able to smile again, to laugh again, to enjoy life again after losing your child? Because no parent should ever lose their child. For sure.

SPEAKER_03: 35:55

It's it's it's a hard thing to explain because there are days where I feel like I'm not able to smile or to find joy or to experience life like she would want me to. But then all of a sudden, something will happen and she'll send me a wink, or there'll be like a little sign from her, and and I'll catch myself in a moment where I'm laughing and smiling, and I'm there for her brothers and her dad and my friends and my coworkers. And I think to myself, every time, like I can hold grief and joy simultaneously, and she can help me get through those days where I think I couldn't do it before. But I think it's just, I think it's learning that even though you're able to find joy again, it doesn't mean or diminish the loss that you have. You're still always going to carry that pain. You're always going to feel that hole in your heart, but you find a way to let them coexist together where you can you can move on with your life without letting go of what you lost.

SPEAKER_04: 37:02

Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, I have never heard that term. I saw a little wink or I got a little week until last week when a couple of people posted with the beautiful rainbow that was over the park cities. And a couple of people said they had seen a cardinal and they referred to that as a little wink. Yeah. I think that's so sweet. What types of other weeks have you seen?

SPEAKER_03: 37:24

So mine initially started out with um uh lots of people still to this day from all chapters of my life send me pink sunsets or pink sunrises. And so these little reminders of Molly with the pink, um, they always put a smile on my face. And it's just this moment where I think to myself, not only is she not forgotten, but everyone is still celebrating her. And then for me personally, Molly had this weird love of this little pink pig stuffed animal that one of her teachers let her get as a prize. And she she had that actually in the car with her when we had the accident. And so now, whenever I see a little pig, that's my little wink from her. And then she loved to go to Dave and Buster's and play this claw game where it was a guaranteed win with a rubber ducky. And it didn't again, these are winks that kind of evolve with time for me. But I remember thinking, oh my gosh, I remember we went home with like 30 ducks because they were guaranteed wins and they're, you know, still all in her room. And so now whenever I see a car that has those ducks, a Jeep, a Jeep. Typically, yes, that's a wink from Molly. Oh, and so it's just again, it's like when you when you see these things, and I think you just have to really be open to it. And so one of the families that lost their their daughter, um, we were talking about um her being a rainbow baby. And um this past weekend, I went with my middle son to do um cleanup at for the at White Rock Lake, and we stopped to get donuts in the morning. And there was a donut that had a little rainbow candy on it. And so I sent it to that family and I said, I see, I see the wink from her. And so I think it's just again, it's just a powerful reminder of how people can be there to hold you up when you think it's impossible to continue forward.

SPEAKER_04: 39:13

If there's one thing these three stories have in common, it's this adversity doesn't get the final word. Tracy, Coach Pressler, and Marissa remind us that strength comes in many forms, and that some of the most inspiring people are right here in our own community. Thank you for listening to inspiring stories from the park cities. I hope these stories encourage you, uplift you, and remind you that no matter what you're facing, you are stronger than you think. That's been another episode of the Bubba Lounge. I'm Martha Jackson, and I'll see you next time.