SPEAKER_02: 0:00

I wanted to give a personal thank you to our good friend and show sponsor, Kathy L. Wall State Farm Agency. We have known Kathy for more than 15 years, and there is no person we trust more when it comes to insurance than Kathy L. Wall. Kathy is always available to help you find the right insurance for your family needs. Whether it's covering your home, auto, or providing a life insurance policy tailored to the unique needs of families in Highland Park. My family trusts Kathy with our insurance, and we hope you will too. Please visit Kathy Lwald.com to learn more and let her know that Martha from the Bubble Lounge sent you. Welcome to the Bubble Lounge. I'm Martha Jackson, and today we're talking about something a lot of us don't want to admit out loud. We count the days until our college kids come home, and then they get here, and our house instantly turns into a 24-hour diner with a laundry service. They're used to doing what they want. We're used to running the house a certain way. And suddenly everyone's a little cranky. So how do we enjoy having them home without nagging, policing, or feeling disappointed? I asked my favorite family therapist, Dr. Kelly Jameson, to come back on and help us walk through what's normal, what to let go of, and how to set expectations so the holidays actually feel good. Let's bring her in. Dr. Jameson, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25

Well, whether we like it or not, the holidays are upon us, aren't they? They are. I mean, next week is already Thanksgiving. As always, it's come up and we're never ready, are we? Never. Well, that brings me to my point of today's discussion, is just talking about welcoming back your college students and when everyone gets back under the roof and just managing expectations, because I'll be the first to say, I'm like a little puppy dog waiting for her to arrive and come home. And I get so excited only to be told, oh, I'm going out with my friends tonight and tomorrow and the next day and staying out and sleeping late, and then you hardly see them, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:59

Right. Yes. And I know a lot of parents they get so excited and they count the days and hours. And then the kids are it's kind of like a drive-by when they get home. So yeah, I know. I've heard those stories so many times in therapy, and it's heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_02: 2:12

So it's normal.

SPEAKER_01: 2:13

Totally normal. Yes, for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 2:15

Well, I mean, I can speak from experience. I mean, remembering back when I would come in from college, I certainly didn't want to spend time with my parents. But I don't know. I just feel like we're kind of different now that we actually really enjoy our kids' company and actually want to be with them.

unknown: 2:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:28

And honestly, like the parent-child attachment is so much greater with just generation than in previous generations. So, you know, they look forward to coming home too. But unfortunately, in therapy, it's like, I can't wait to see my dog. I'm like, okay, well, what about your siblings and your parents? And it's like, I know, but I truly want to see my dog.

SPEAKER_02: 2:47

Okay, that sounds familiar. I can tell you for a fact, both of my kids would pick the dogs over me anytime. I know. It's so sad. Well, let's talk about that. Just, you know, fantasy versus reality. What is the norm and how can we, you know, move forward with it?

SPEAKER_01: 3:03

Well, you get a little bit of time with them and you can plan in ways that are meaningful for you and for them. So what I hear in therapy is they can't wait to get home and sleep in their bed. Uh-huh. They can't wait to like shower in their shower. Right. They can't wait to play with the dog. And then they really look forward to like certain mom meals. Oh. So whatever you've made or ask them, like, hey, what are you hoping to have when you're home? Um, those are the things that they honestly they look forward to. Their bed, their shower, and like their favorite meal at home. So those are easy things that you can plan for. Right. Right. But I think the biggest thing that is helpful for parents to hear is have some things on the calendar that you tell, if we're talking about college kids coming home, um, tell them in advance some dinners or days that you need them home so that they can plan ahead. And you do this even before they come home. Right. So you say, obviously, Thursday is, you know, Thanksgiving family day, and I really need you for like Tuesday night, you know, so and so's coming over, or we're supposed to go over there, or I just really need you home. If they know those like no negotiation days or blocks of time, um, they can work around those a little bit. Otherwise, they wake up, you're hoping they go out with you to run errands and they've already made lunch plans with so-and-so. But if you can be organized enough to give them like two or three chunks of time where you absolutely need them no matter what, that prevents some problems.

SPEAKER_02: 4:34

Sure, sure. Well, mine has a three-hour eye doctor appointment, and I need to remind her about that again and make sure that she has that on her calendar. Well, what about the feelings of, you know, you you get all this excitement built up and then all of a sudden your house turns into a fraternity house, you know, with the late night hours and the sleeping all day and it's messy. There's more laundry, all the things.

SPEAKER_01: 4:55

Yeah, good, great point. That is another conversation you can have before they even get home. Um, sounds like the curfew, you know, a lot of kids, they're not used to checking in with anyone anymore. Oh, yeah. So they'll come home late or at all if they spend the night with someone else. Right. So those are those are just some agreements and conversations that you can have even before they get home and just remind them, hey, like you're back at my house. This is what I need, this is what I expect, and just kind of set the boundaries and the expectations before they get home.

SPEAKER_03: 5:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 5:27

So a lot of this is literally just front loading these conversations that you can do now before they come home next week, just so that there's no spur of the moment on the spot, trying to figure out what am I allowed to do, what am I not allowed to do.

SPEAKER_02: 5:39

Yeah, that I and I know that's hard for them because, like you said, they are so used to just being on their own and not having to answer anybody. So um just, you know, the main thing I think that you just need to try to manage that without feeling like, you know, you're policing them or you're the warden and you know, you don't want to be the bad guy, but I think what you're saying is setting expectations up front is is really key.

SPEAKER_01: 6:02

Yeah, and I think if you use the word like respectfulness or manners, that is going to resonate with these young adults. You know, they don't want to hear the word curfew or rules anymore. But if you say, hey, let's be respectful of, you know, so whoever's in the house, um, that is that's more of a kind of peer-to-peer expectation conversation that's going to resonate a little more and it feels a little bit more grown up than them feeling like, oh gosh, mom's nagging me about what time I need to be home again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 6:30

And then that probably would make them not want to come home anymore if you're nagging at them all the time. Exactly. Yes. And we need them to come home. Well, what about? I think it's funny how you know you're used to running your home a certain way, and then all of a sudden there's no groceries, there's twice the amount of laundry, and and then the fridge is just never stocked with food anymore, and they're constantly complaining about that.

SPEAKER_01: 6:51

Right. But they also love coming home and they want to see their pantry and they because they're in college, right? You know, they're on meal plans and they're not have a full pantry themselves. Exactly. Right. They're running on, you know, Starbucks and whatever. So they love to see pantries that remind them it's it's nostalgia when they come home as silly as it sounds. So this kind of goes to a parenting style. Like, are you a type A parent where everything's going to be stocked? Or are you more of a you know, fly by the seat of your pants parent? If you are, then you kind of need to know that about yourself because it's going to be more stressful if you're not that organized. Right. So when the kid comes home and they see that mom or dad has made an extra effort to make sure, you know, certain cookies are in the pantry or certain drinks are in the fridge, that means a lot to them. Right. So it's not so much what you say, but it are little things around the house that they're gonna notice and that you made a special effort. So that's gonna be really easy, obviously, for type A people, not so much for everyone else. And I fall into that category. Yeah, I mean, I do too, honestly. And that can make things feel a little chaotic and stressful. So if you just spend some time thinking about what do I need to get in advance so that when my child or children are here, I can really just be present and enjoy them and not worrying about running to Costco and loading up on everything.

SPEAKER_02: 8:09

Right. Well, it kind of sounds like the same as if you were expecting, you know, a house guest for the weekend that she would definitely get some special things and make their room look extra nice and just give it a little extra thought.

SPEAKER_01: 8:21

Right. I remember coming home one year and my dad picked me up from the airport, and he's like, So do you want to stop and get something on the way home for dinner? And in that moment, it kind of hurt my feelings because I was like, y'all knew I was coming. Like, we're just gonna run through somewhere and get something on the way. Like, you know, I'm 48 years old and I still remember feeling that just little pang. Oh, wow. And it wasn't, I don't feel like it was entitlement. I just kind of felt like like it was my first night home and there was no plan. Of course, I'm the last born of three kids, and my parents were older, but I just felt like, oh, they didn't they didn't prepare for me. I could see that. Um, so those little things kids do notice that we make a special effort to prepare.

SPEAKER_02: 9:09

Right, right. Well, what about those of us that still have kids at home? You know, they've been used to being kind of an only child for several months now, and now they have to get used to sharing the spotlight again. And I think sometimes that might make them feel a little like, you know, left out or not important anymore.

SPEAKER_01: 9:27

Yeah, they can feel like, you know, the one coming home is the star, the golden child. I've heard that before. Yes. But you know, these preemptive phone calls that you're going to make with your college kid should also include hey, like your little brother is really looking forward to seeing you. Uh-huh. Make sure you plan to spend some time with him or take him to dinner or, you know, whatever, go hit balls, or whatever the two of you have done in the past. Make sure that that's on their radar too. As much as the ones who are at home kind of roll their eyes when we make such a big deal about the college kids coming home. They love it too. But we really need to remind the older kids to make time for the siblings because they're they really need that just as much as mom and dad need that time too.

SPEAKER_02: 10:10

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SPEAKER_01: 11:44

Yeah. So you're referring to a term that we call regression. Okay. And that happens all the way adults going back home too. So, you know, if I were to fly home to Kentucky and see my family, I would sort of regress into some of those last born tendencies. That's human nature. And we do that from our family of origin. Anytime we go back, we do that. So we kind of regress back into those roles. So we can all expect to do that. And that's okay. That's okay. As long as it doesn't create conflict. Um, and you can sort of navigate and manage that as you hear yourself doing that.

SPEAKER_02: 12:18

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01: 12:19

Just have a layer of awareness, I guess, is my best advice.

SPEAKER_02: 12:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 12:22

But everyone does that.

SPEAKER_02: 12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:24

Every person in the family does that. And regression is something that all humans do when they go back to their family of origin. So that's all normal and very normal.

SPEAKER_02: 12:34

Yeah. It's making it's just kind of reminding me that my dad, I don't feel like he ever saw me as an adult. Even when I was, you know, late 20s getting married. I think he still saw me as the young teenager that I was for so many years.

SPEAKER_01: 12:47

Yep. Very normal. Me too. As I said, I'm the youngest. And when I go home, um, my sisters still call me, hey kids, sister. You know, I'm 48 with three kids. And um, but it we all do it. It's normal. It just happens. It's not personal. No one's trying to hurt anyone's feelings. It just, it's the familiar. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 13:05

Well, not too long ago, we did an episode about Parents Weekend and just managing the expectation. When you go to their turf and all of a sudden you're a part of their world.

SPEAKER_03: 13:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 13:18

And um, the main takeaway with the ladies that I had on the show was don't have expectations, like really put those out the door. You need to have the mentality to go with the flow and kind of be on their schedule. And um, so I think that some of the things we talked about there could probably apply to having your kids home for the holidays.

SPEAKER_01: 13:39

Yes, to an extent.

SPEAKER_02: 13:40

To an extent, right?

SPEAKER_01: 13:41

Because we're still responsible for the flow of the holidays and pulling off the holidays. And so I agree to an extent. It's still, we still need them to be respectful and we still need them to help out. You know, I try to teach my kids the four magic words, and that's how can I help? Um, so anytime they go to someone's house or when they see me running around preparing or trying to get something ready, um, the expectation is they'll come and find me and ask the four magic words or how can I help? Not, hey, mom, do you need any help? Because that's a yes or no question. And we're likely to say no, because in our minds we can do it all. But if they say, if they walk into the room and say, How can I help?

SPEAKER_02: 14:20

How can I help?

SPEAKER_01: 14:21

That is a much different question. Okay. And then I'm looking around and I'm saying, okay, go move that, go grab that trash, something along those lines.

SPEAKER_02: 14:30

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SPEAKER_01: 17:06

Yeah, great question. So whether they're coming to your home or you're in the car heading to someone else's house for any holiday event, I think a little brush up on how to coach your kids and how to answer some of these questions is helpful because it can be very overwhelming for a child, elementary school, middle school, high school, college, to run into a family member that they don't see that often and then all of a sudden have these very personal conversations about cross-examination. Exactly. I mean, you know, it's house school, but then it's, you know, what are you studying? And then it just becomes very personal. What are you gonna do with your life? Exactly. What are you thinking? So uh these kids are not used to talking to people from all these different generations, so it doesn't come as naturally to them as it does to us as adults. So just a little coaching on that, how to give them sort of little one-liners about how school's going or how college is going or how soccer's going or something like that. Just a little brush up in the car or how to divert those things. Um that's that's easy to do with our kids because we know our kids and we know what they're capable of. We know which children of ours are gonna be fine handling tough conversations. And then the ones that aren't, we need to be careful of that too. So for um an anxious child, if you have a child that is shy or anxious, um, it's okay to give them little breaks. So you can if you see that your child is kind of wilting at a table or in the corner somewhere, you can go over to them and say, Hey, you can take a little break. Just like come back in five or ten and give them permission to kind of step out and regroup because that can really um like paralyze some kids too. Or if you see someone in the corner uh, you know, really having a conversation with one of your children and you know they're dying, then go over or give another family member like the eyes, like, you know, help them out. So help them out. Yeah. So sort of this team mentality is important too. And obviously these big group table events where everyone's sitting down, like at a Thanksgiving or a Christmas Eve. Um, that is really where these landmines occur where someone makes a statement about what someone's not eating or eating. Like there should be no comments about people's plates, what they're eating, how much they're eating, anyone's weight, anyone's appearance on any level, all of those things. But those are another, those are another questions where you can coach your child on how to not take things personally, how to let things go, how to neutralize a tough question and kind of role-play a little bit with that. Um, otherwise they can get into the weeds and get really stuck. Yeah. Yeah. So this feels, I feel like everything I'm saying today requires so much parent coaching, like preemptive phone calls and reminders. But um, we just have to remember for young people, this is not as easy as it is for us. Right. So we can sort of ebb and flow with some of these, but they're not used to doing this all the time. Right. So the more we can do on the front end is gonna be helpful for our kids, whether they're super chatty and social or more introverted and you know, laid back, we just have to brush up on what that looks like and um how to save each other in some of these conversations. Now, this goes both ways. So when we run into our nieces and nephews and things like that, we cannot hit them with all of the the standard questions. And this is how this usually goes. If as an adult, if we run into like a college-age child and we know they're at they're at the university of whatever, and then we want to talk to them, and we go over and we say, Hey, how's how's Texas? Right. And then all of a sudden, as an adult, our eyes light up because we're doing this reflective thing because we're thinking about our college and how fun it was. And we're looking at someone who's in it and they're in the weeds and they're going to class and maybe they're having a hard time, maybe they're overwhelmed, maybe their major is too difficult. And we're looking at them because we want them to affirm how fun college is. And that is a very odd exchange that I hear about in therapy sometimes. Because these kids are like, you know, my aunt or uncle or whoever, my mom's best friend, you know, they just want to play the highlight reel. And I don't really know how to communicate to them that, like, yeah, yeah, it's cool, but it's hard for them. Like they're in it. Uh-huh. And we're just reflecting on how fun it was. So when we're talking to these young people as adults, it's important for us to remember to say, man, my freshman year was tough. Or, you know, not to Disneyland it. Right. Not to make it this great thing, but to really just talk to them like a normal person. That's doing a really hard thing. And you can say to them, hey, I'm proud of you. That's that's hard going away. That's hard being the first one to go. That's that engineering major, I bet that's hard. And just give them permission to look at you and say, Yeah, it is. And some days it's terrible, but I'm having an okay time. Just to sort of normalize it so they don't feel like they need to give you this affirmation about how sparkling and wonderful college is.

SPEAKER_02: 21:59

Right. Well, they already have so much of that with social media is trying to project the highlight reel out there. So they shouldn't have to do it to the family. The question that I always hated, that everyone wanted to ask, I don't know why it was the number one question. Do you have a boyfriend? And I didn't have a serious boyfriend until later in life. And I literally felt like the whole family based my value on the fact that I did or didn't have a boyfriend. It really I got offended after a while. I bet you did. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 22:26

Yes. And that question sort of lingers all the way through the 20s. You know, like that's a tough one.

SPEAKER_02: 22:31

Until you get married. Until you get married. And then are you having kids starts? I mean, there's just they just never stop.

SPEAKER_01: 22:36

We have to be more creative. And here's, you know, a couple of things that I've heard people, we always talk about traditions during the holidays. So to sort of avoid some of those cliche cliche questions, like you were saying, there's there's some great things I've heard from clients over the years that they do just to give someone something to talk about other than the standard. Oh, I like that. Yeah. And that is um one, okay, a couple things. One idea was to have everyone that you know is coming to your house, if you're hosting, send some sort of selfie. And then they go to, you know, they print their pictures. Does anyone know how to print pictures anymore? You know, like send it over to Walgreens or whatever. And then they made like a five by seven of everyone's selfie. Okay. And they put it on a ribbon with like clothespins. And then it was, it gave everyone sort of a talking point about what was this or where were you for this? Um, so that was really fun. Um, other families, I've heard once uh um during dinner they bring out like a silver tray full of um lottery uh cards to like scratch off. Okay. And it gives and then everyone sort of does that at the table and it diverts the pressure of you know, this awkward table talk sometimes. And it gives someone, you know, to scratch off and be like, oh, I won a hundred bucks or I won a fifty bucks or I didn't win anything. It gives people kind of something to do. Because the the go around the table and talk about what you're thankful for is just so basic. We can do better. It's so expected. We can we can do better, right? We can be more creative than that. So if you're hosting, or if you've got the big personality of the family, or you run a podcast for a living, you know, we can come up with better questions than just let's go around the table. That is really daunting. What if someone's had a really bad year, or what if someone's going through a really hard time? They don't want to talk about what they're thankful for. And it's just like you said, so expected. So coming up with a little bit more colorful things, or to give an unexpected display in the room, in the kitchen, to give people a little ha-ha, something to laugh at or talk about is helpful.

SPEAKER_02: 24:34

Okay, that's giving me some really good ideas because we have a couple of different scenarios where um there's kind of a leader of the table that I would say talks a little too much, maybe. But then there's another group that doesn't talk at all. So, like, how do you balance that? And these are very creative ways to just kind of add some fun into that table conversation.

SPEAKER_01: 24:55

Exactly. I've heard people put like post-it notes under the chargers, you know, at the table and it's numbered. So if you have a one, like you're the first round of like clearing the table.

SPEAKER_03: 25:04

Oh.

SPEAKER_01: 25:05

And then if you're round two, like you're in charge of like the game or something after. Okay. So it gives people, you know, it's it's the it's the moment of surprise where they weren't expecting something. And it's like, oh, look under your charger, you know, or it can say, you know, like clean up one or trash or something. Obviously, you're not going to do that with a huge, like, formal group, but these are sort of fun things. Uh, another client said after um after dinner, um, dessert was served like in Christmas mugs. And it was like, it was the transference of Thanksgiving to Christmas. And then they would put they put Christmas music on after the meal was over. And then it just was sort of an unexpected, sort of cute ha ha that gave people something to smile about and talk about. So you're just trying to surprise people so that we're not stuck in the trenches of how's school, how's work, you know, how's how's this going? How's that going? We just need a little element of surprise.

SPEAKER_02: 26:00

Well, and that element of surprise is making memories because what you want is when somebody leaves your dinner party is for them to feel good and have a good memory and not be like, well, I was just raked over the coals about school and boyfriends and careers and all the things, and all those things are great suggestions as far as just walking away with a really positive memory.

SPEAKER_01: 26:22

Exactly. And what we know psychologically is that rituals equate to safety. So for our kids and for our extended family members, if they always know that at Thanksgiving this happens or there's always this, or that whatever the memory is that you try to create in your family, that is instilling a sense of safety, which we don't think about it that way. We just think we're making memories and we're creating those, you know, happy core memories for our kids. But we're actually building safety around memory and family because the world can be very chaotic and their lives can be confusing if they're young people and not really knowing what they're doing, but they always know that around Thanksgiving or Christmas, they do this and that. And it reminds them that there are things in the world that are always touch points and there are always things that will be there, and that provides a sense of safety for them and a calmness and it helps regulate their nervous system.

SPEAKER_02: 27:22

Okay, that's interesting. Um, I think this kind of ties in with what you're saying. Um, we always host Christmas. Okay. And I feel like it's the same exact situation every year. There's the same plates, the same placemats, the same conversations. And I'm always trying to think of some way to liven it up, which your ideas, what you were talking about, sound awesome. But is that routine also creating safety for everyone in my group?

SPEAKER_01: 27:48

Yeah. I mean, I think the fact that you always host creates safety.

SPEAKER_02: 27:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 27:52

They know what the plates are going to look like, create safety, right? They know that this dessert is always served. Safety. So rituals equals safety. But those events can get a little monotonous and there's no element of surprise. Right. So it's sort of you're marrying the two ideals rituals and safety, element of surprise, so that people can walk away feeling so good about what they just experienced. Because honestly, we're all looking forward to the holidays. Right? We work hard, they work hard at school, we work hard at our jobs. In life, we have to have these little carrots that we look forward to. And that's what keeps us going. Yeah. Otherwise, life is hard and monotonous. And monotonous and difficult and challenging. And but the holidays are supposed to be joyful and special, and family is supposed to remind us that no matter what's happening in the world, there are people that I can still rely on and I can still be around and I can feel safe around. And that's all we're trying to do.

SPEAKER_02: 28:49

Right. So, Dr. Jameson, as always, you've shared just so much great information. Everyone loves your tips and everything. Can you just kind of summarize and and and we can end with final thoughts as far as steps that we can go through to have a successful holiday?

SPEAKER_01: 29:05

Sure. I think my best advice is we can prevent a lot of stress and conflict if we frontload a lot of this. So I've talked about calling your college kid ahead of time, but then also while your college kid is home, or even if you don't have college kids and you're still have kids under your house, under your roof, bring them in, have a little family meeting. I I find great power in a family meeting where, in fact, when I say family meeting at my house, all my kids are like, oh no. And then I get everyone in the living room and I just say what I need to say. So for something like this, whether you're hosting or you're going to a big event or even a small event, it's just important to get the kids together and everyone and say, okay, this is stressful for people. This is we are outside the norm. We are talking to people we don't normally talk to. We're going to be asked things we don't aren't normally asked. So let's just extend a little grace to each other. No one's trying to hurt anyone's feelings, especially. Especially in this little foursome or fivesome of our family. Let's keep an eye on each other. Let's figure out what each other needs. Let's help mom out. And you know, let's keep an eye on mom if she's hosting and dad too. Let's kind of figure out how I can help. And just remember, we are all on the same team. Same team. And everybody says, same team, same team. And then you get in the car and you go. Or you open the door and they all come in. Same team.

SPEAKER_02: 30:26

Same team. I love that. Well, thank you so much for being here again. Like I said, you always have an open invitation to come on. We love you. All the wisdom that you share with us. Thank you so much. That's been another episode of the Bubble Lounge. I'm Martha Jackson, and I'll see you next time.