SPEAKER_01: 0:00

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SPEAKER_02: 1:38

Martha, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:41

Of course. Well, I have followed you on Instagram for a bit now, but something that really got my attention at the beginning of October was a t-shirt that you had on.

SPEAKER_02: 1:50

Oh yes, I remember that t-shirt. And it says, tell them what it says. It says, yes, these are fake. The real ones tried to kill me. I know. And it and and either you were gonna like it or not like it, but it's pretty much the truth.

SPEAKER_01: 2:06

I mean, it's just it's like quite the statement, you know. It's quite the state. Breast cancer. We're in this month here in October, and I wanted to do an episode anyway, but when I saw your shirt, I was like, that's who we're heading on. We have to talk to Kathy. So walk us through what happened and along with your journey with breast cancer.

SPEAKER_02: 2:22

Well, um, this all started 10 years ago. I just actually celebrated my 10-year cancer version. I call it my cancer versary. So it's a big deal. It's a huge deal. It's a huge deal. But what I had was something called um triple negative breast cancer. And that is a breast cancer that's a little bit more, well, a lot more aggressive. And it usually affects only 15 to 20 percent of all breast cancers. So it's not that common. However, it's become becoming more common. And it used to be just it used to be a cancer back in, I would say like 30 years ago, 25 years ago, that really affected mostly affected young black women. And now it's affecting everyone. And can I just say this is really important? It's affecting really young women. Oh gosh. And so I'm a big, big advocate for telling younger women that I don't care if you're, I mean, like in your 20s, even, that you I would just say that if you can go get a um a mammogram, just a baseline, so you have that baseline even in your 20s. And then if you something comes up, you'll have something to compare to. I'm a big believer that the the average age of a mammogram should be a lot younger than 40. I I I would love to see it at at least 30. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 4:02

No, everything that you're saying is making me think, you know, it wasn't until I was 40-ish that I had my first one, and I don't think I would have thought twice about having it when I was younger.

SPEAKER_02: 4:10

Well, I didn't either. And so um that's why I'm saying it's just the more I I believe, and this is my opinion, however, I've talked to my doctors about this, but I believe that triple negative is um actually environment like an environmental cancer because triple negative, so there are three markers for your regular breast cancer, and that's um estrogen, progesterone, and something called HER2. And those are the three markers that usually make up a breast cancer. And most women are, I would say a lot of women are estrogen positive, progesterone positive, and HER2 negative. And so, and that's kind of I think the better of all the breast cancers if you if you had to pick one. But triple negative is negative those three markers. And so they don't really know where it comes from. So I believe that it's environmental. And the reason I say that it's important for women, even younger women, to get tested because look what's in our our environment now with food. Just, I mean, whatever we're whatever we're breathing, water, whatever. I just I'm a big advocate for getting a mammogram early. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 5:36

I mean, we're exposed to just so many things in the environment, like you're saying. And I feel like Americans have the world's worst diet, imagine out there. So, absolutely extra crap that's our food. Exactly. And so, yeah, I was gonna ask you if you felt like it was um environmental, hereditary, just bad luck. I I guess just a little bit of everything, just depending.

SPEAKER_02: 5:57

I think so. Um, I I test it, so I had uh genetic testing done after I was diagnosed with this. And triple negative usually goes along with the Broccogene. Okay. But I tested negative for all that. So, and no one in my family's ever had it. So it's I I believe that it's like we just said, I mean, maybe luck of the draw and environmental.

SPEAKER_01: 6:24

Well, um, let's go back to when you first found out. I mean, I that's literally my worst nightmare is the doctor calling and saying something this intense is going on.

SPEAKER_02: 6:34

Tell us about that experience. So, okay, so I went for my regular mammogram. I went every year, and 10 years ago, when I went in, I got called back like a couple days later. And my gynecologist called me and she said, You need to go back because they they found some calcifications. And I thought, you know what, no big deal. I remember my mom said she had a calcification. I probably am doing just like my mom. So I went back, they did more uh pictures, and then the radio radiologist called me into his office and he had my films up and he said, and I mean, huge. I mean, it it wasn't just a little bitty x-ray, it was huge on the wall. And he said, Do you see this? And pointed to this calcification. So it mine didn't show up as a tumor. He he pointed to the calcification, and the calcification had like tentacles on it. It looked sort of like a jellyfish. Okay. And he said, I don't like the way that this looks, and I think you should get a biopsy. Well, thank God he said that because it wasn't a tumor that showed up. So I went in, long it's a long story, but I ended up at UT Southwestern and um ended up with the head of radiology, and he was the kindest man, and he did the biopsy, which was I I thought it was awful because it's it felt like jackhammering. Yes, you know. Yeah, it was just not fun. But he couldn't even find it because it was high it my tumor was hiding in the duct, but finally got to it, and the next day, just because he was so nice, he said, I'm gonna I'm gonna help you out and let you know real quickly. So the next day he called me and I remember answering the phone and it said on my you know caller ID, UT Southwestern. And he said, you know, this is Dr. Evans, and he said, Um, you know, I I I said, Oh, you were so sweet yesterday. And he said, Oh, I had the you know, such a good time talking to you. And he said, But I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But he he said, Your, you know, your biopsy came back and you have cancer. Oh my gosh. And it's it's just, you know, it's like you you go, your head, my I just remember my head, just like that tunnel vision. Uh-huh. And then the next day, well, back up, I had an appointment that afternoon as well, the day of my radio, my um biopsy, I had an appointment with a breast surgeon over there. Okay. And she just wanted to see me just in case, I guess. And she came in, and when she she said, I think we caught this early. And when she said that, my my daughter had gone with me, and I just remember it was like the Charlie uh Brown teacher that wah, wah wah, wah wah, wah wah, you know. You probably couldn't hear anything she said. Uh-uh. I couldn't hear a thing. And we walked out and I looked at my daughter and I said, Did she just tell me I had breast cancer?

SPEAKER_01: 9:54

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SPEAKER_02: 11:43

I went back the next week and we she was going on vacation, so they worked me in real quickly. And back 10 years ago, they were doing now they do chemo and then massectomies. Okay. But back 10 years ago, they did mastectomies and then chemo if you needed it. Okay. Your choice if you wanted a you know, a mastectomy. Uh-huh. I chose to do a double mastectomy. And so from the time I found out, it was two weeks later that I was, you know, under the knife getting a double mastectomy. And then um, and then I found then found out it was triple negative. And you don't get a choice. If it's triple negative, you have to do chemo. And I did radiation as well. So, and I will say this that if anybody is going through this or God forbid it happens to you, or somebody that you know, um, make sure that you see a breast cancer specialist. Okay. Don't just go to an oncologist. Make sure that you see a breast cancer specialist and an oncologist that deals in breast cancer.

SPEAKER_01: 13:05

Well, and we're so lucky here in Dallas, Texas. We just have so many wonderful resources. Like my biggest fear is living in a smaller town and not having access to these things. And we really are fortunate. And it sounds like you had a really good team that was ready for you.

SPEAKER_02: 13:20

Well, they were amazing. And I I I had lived in we had lived in Birmingham, Alabama. Um I guess we lived there for 10 years, and we moved to Dallas, and I was diagnosed like a year and a half after. One of my really good friends that lived in my neighborhood in Birmingham, she was diagnosed with triple negative six weeks before me. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And it's kind of weird, like an Aaron Brockovich story, but there were two other women in the neighborhood that were also a year later triple negative and several years before triple negative. But had I done, had I lived in Birmingham, I would have followed what she did, the protocol she went through. Right. And she didn't go to a breast cancer oncologist. And unfortunately, it didn't work out for her.

SPEAKER_01: 14:20

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02: 14:21

I know. It's really sad. But I'm so thankful that I was in Dallas and got that treatment. And that's why I like to tell people go to a breast cancer oncologist.

SPEAKER_01: 14:34

Got it. I mean, that's really, really good advice. And you know, you don't know how to navigate these situations until you're like in it and you're in you're an emotional wreck trying to process the information. You're right. And then trying to trying to just figure it out. So yeah, so fortunate to be in Dallas, Texas. It is. Did you have a good support group, friends, family that that took care of you and lifted you up during all this?

SPEAKER_02: 14:58

So I did. I really did. Um, like I said, we had just been here an a year and a half. And so um my family was is in Dallas. And so I did have my family, my two of my kids were here. Um and yes, and I had some really good friends that helped me along the way, plus friends from other parts of the country where I've lived. Um, and that's really important to have that because even though I will say this that the support is great, but unless you've gone through it, it's really hard to understand what somebody's feeling, you know? And so um I didn't really have anybody that I could talk to that had had been through this, except for my friend in Alabama who was six weeks ahead of me. But I like to um I like to always tell, I mean, I I try to on my blog um bring it up every once in a while. But I want to make sure that women know that if you if they are diag they are, you know, given this diagnosis, I'm always happy to talk to anybody. And I have done that for the last 10 years. I mean, I've people have reached out to me and I'm just like, here's my number, just call me and let's just go through the whole thing. Because there are tips and tricks, of course, for um mastectomies and then chemo. There are a lot of tips and tricks, and you don't know until somebody tells you, you know, that's that's walked this walk ahead of you. Sure.

SPEAKER_01: 16:38

So um if anybody, if if anybody needs me, you can you can get in touch with me. No, I know so many people would appreciate that a lot. And it's so nice that you have this blog and you have access to so many women out there that are following you and enjoying your content that you're able to get the word out to such a big audience.

SPEAKER_02: 16:57

Right, right. So, and sometimes I try not to be that the the the breast cancer blog because I started as just a fashion blog, but it's there. I mean, if you need me, I'm there. So just just so everyone knows.

SPEAKER_01: 17:13

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SPEAKER_00: 17:36

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SPEAKER_01: 17:59

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SPEAKER_02: 18:46

Well, I I think of course um breast self-checks are really important. And I always err on the you know side of just be cautious, you know, just just be proactive because even if you feel something, go get it checked. I mean, it's probably nothing, but it it's just peace of mind and you get it checked. Um, because I know a lot of women have um fibrous breasts and or dense breasts. Yes. And I think that that's you know, I've heard I've I didn't have that, but a lot of women who I've talked to said, oh my gosh, I feel lumps all the time. Your doctor is there for that reason. If you need your doctor, go to your doctor. Right. And of course, get the get the mammogram. And I just think it, you know, you pay attention to your body. And most of us know if something turns up that wasn't there, you you get a sense of I need to check this out. You know, most of the time you do get that, I I should go get this checked out.

SPEAKER_01: 19:52

Well, did you feel anything? Did you feel different at all? I didn't I didn't think so.

SPEAKER_02: 19:57

No, and like I said, mine was hiding. I couldn't feel it. When I went in for my first uh visit with my doctor, she couldn't even feel it. So that's why I'm saying the mammogram is really important. So even if you're, you know, again, you know, just try to make those appointments every year and go because I didn't ever think it would happen to me. Yeah and it did. So, you know, you just never, you never know.

SPEAKER_01: 20:27

Yeah, well, you know, we're all way overscheduled and have way too much to do, but this is so important later. So important. Do not dismiss it, don't get too busy and say, I'll do it next year, just do it. Mine's coming up next month.

SPEAKER_02: 20:39

Good, we'll do it. Yeah, for sure. I just will not skip it. It's like the Nike slogan, just do it. It's two seconds, you know, and it doesn't really hurt. And, you know, it's it's it's better to do it than not do it. No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 20:55

So we were talking earlier about a support group, and I'm just so curious, like, how was it with your family? How did they handle the news?

SPEAKER_02: 21:02

So my I will tell you that my children were older at the time. I I had maybe one in college and then the other two were out of college. One was married already. Um, they were shocked and kind of in disbelief. Um my husband was a wreck. And I've heard this more and more from women that have had breast cancer. The you know, my husband, I guess if you're the man, you want to fix things. Of course. You know? And so he this was something that he couldn't fix. And he was, I mean, he was a rock star the whole time. He went to all my appointments with me. He went to all my all my chemo treatments with me. Um, couldn't go to the radiation because they wouldn't let him back there, but he did go to really and truly almost all of my chemos. Um, I think he was out of town once and a friend came in from out of town and went with me. I always had somebody with me. But he was a wreck. And he just it was actually harder on him than it was on me.

SPEAKER_01: 22:16

Yeah, I could see that. Like if there's something going on with my kids, I literally can't function. I did I just because I would have fixed it. Right, you want to fix it. There's some things you just can't, and it's just this feeling of uh not having any power or control, and you can't do a thing about it for your loved one.

SPEAKER_02: 22:32

Exactly, exactly. And my dad, my my mom and dad were alive, my mom is still alive, but my I just remember, you know, my parents were just I mean, they were devastated too. I I will say that, and my husband tells me this all the time, and I just was I think I was just trying to function, but I I was really trying to be positive for my family, uh-huh, you know, and I was I put on, you know, I I I really never complained about it. And so they I I wanted them to feel like I was gonna be okay. Right. And this is kind of funny, but I of course lost all my hair during chemo. Um, I had eight rounds of chemo, and so it was four months every other week. I I would have an infusion, and so I lost my hair on day 17. On actually it was my birthday.

SPEAKER_01: 23:34

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02: 23:35

I had to shave my head on my birthday. And I then, you know, had like a buzz, it was like a you know, little bit of hair, and then it just all starts coming out where you look like, you know, um Uncle Fester from the Addams family since it's Halloween month. Um but I just remember I I would wear like a little beanie, a soft beanie or a Halo wig or a wig. And I never ever let my husband or my children see me without anything on my head. I did not want them to have that vision of me. I wanted because I I would have people say, I'm so sorry you're sick. And I was like, but I I'm not really sick. I just have breast cancer. I mean, it doesn't feel like sick is like when, like we were talking earlier, was like me having the flu, the stomach virus last week. That's sick to me. Uh-huh. I would I had cancer. I just didn't feel sick. So I didn't want them to have that mental image of me without any hair. And I didn't even really want to see it because I just was like, I don't want to feel sick.

SPEAKER_01: 24:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 24:50

You know? Right. So it's just the way that I dealt with it.

SPEAKER_01: 24:53

You know, we all deal with very differently. And that sounds exactly like how I would handle it as well.

SPEAKER_02: 24:59

I did. I mean, I just, you know, it was just one of the ways that I handled it. So anyway, but I will say that um I relied a lot on my faith, and I just knew that I was in God's hands. And something, a friend of mine in Alabama sent me a book. And this is a great book, even if you're going through anything, any, any illness, but it's called 365 Days of Healing, and it's by Charles Brev. I think it's B-R-A-V-E-E. Bro, no, B-R-A-Z-E-E. And it you can get it on Amazon, 365 Days of Healing. But it was it it made me kind of it gave me sort of an aha moment when I was reading, and I think it was on January, I think January 13th, maybe, I can't remember the exact date. But um I and this is just I I mean if you believe in God or you know, it just said it said on that page, it's just like a devotion, and it he was he was um talking about the Lord's prayer, and he said, on earth as it is in heaven, well, there's no sickness in heaven. And so I just started thinking about that, and I was like, I'm not supposed to be sick, so I'm gonna start claiming that I am healthy and whole, and this is gonna go away. And that's kind of how I got through it. It seems like it worked. It did work, it did work, and I will tell you, I mean, even to this day, I read that book every single day, and it's just it it really does help you think positively. And I think that when you have any kind of cancer or any kind of illness, I think the brain is really powerful. And I think that when you you put that positive thought into your head, I really do think it can heal you.

SPEAKER_01: 27:05

So between the book and uh the wigs, you'd say that's kind of what helped keep your spirits alive?

SPEAKER_02: 27:12

It it did. And and it was uh I guess I was going through chemo during Octo October and early November. So I got a lot of online Christmas shopping done.

SPEAKER_01: 27:25

Yeah, I was going to ask you, how did you feel your days? Because just the anticipation of the next week of treatments, that would just it would be really it would be really difficult to pass the time waiting for that.

SPEAKER_02: 27:37

Well, it was difficult passing the time. I took a lot of walks and I really didn't get in crowds very often because I I had a goal date of November 7th was the day that I was to finish chemo and I did not want to go past that. And so I did end up in the hospital one time because my I I got what they call nutrapeneic. And it's when your, I think your white cells, I can't remember if it's your white or your red cells, go to zero. Okay. And I just felt horrible. So they put me in the hospital and they're like, you can't, I mean, you can't go out and be around anybody. And I was like, why am I in the hospital then? I mean, this is the worst place to be, right? Exactly, yeah. But they finally let me out. Um, but I just I tried to stay, and I and I was able to do my chemo that next week. Um, but I just really didn't get around in crowds. Sure, sure. Yeah, so I would stay healthy.

SPEAKER_01: 28:37

Well, Kathy, thank you so much. You have done such an amazing job of sharing your story and just being so open and honest with us, giving a ton of really good tips in that book. I'm gonna include a link to your book.

SPEAKER_02: 28:48

Oh, that book is amazing. And I just appreciate you having me on, especially during this month of breast cancer awareness month. And ladies, please go get checked, get your daughters to go get checked, your you know, your sisters, your granddaughters, if they're uh in their 20s, don't think that it can't happen to younger women because it it really can. So I I I that's I just really want to reiterate that.

SPEAKER_01: 29:19

That's that's great advice. Thank you so much. Well, that's been another episode of the Bubble Lounge. I'm Martha Jackson, and we'll catch you next time.