Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to the Bubble Lounge. I'm Martha Jackson. This week has been incredibly heavy for our community. Early on the morning of July 4th, flash floods swept through Kerrville, texas, tragically taking the lives of some of our Park City's children. Taking the lives of some of our Park City's children. Many of our families had children at Camp Mystic and other camps along the Guadalupe River, and our entire community is heartbroken. There's absolutely no easy way to process something like this. The grief is raw, the loss is unimaginable and for so many, the question right now is simple how do we begin to help? How do we support these families? What do we do with this ache in our hearts?

Speaker 1: 0:47

I wasn't even sure if I was going to release an episode this week because, honestly, it felt like words might fall short, but when Head Rector Chris Garada of St Michael and All Angels offered to join me last minute, I knew this conversation needed to happen. Chris led a prayer service Sunday evening that brought so many members of our community together. It was beautiful, hopeful and filled with light, even in the midst of sorrow. My hope is that today's episode will offer the same. We're talking about grief, yes, and also love, unity and how to show up for one another. If you're feeling helpless, and sure what to say or do, I believe this episode will give you not only comfort but a place to start. Chris, thank you so much for being here, especially on such short notice.

Speaker 2: 1:31

Oh, thank you for asking me.

Speaker 1: 1:32

Well, some of the people in the community had talked about how wonderful the prayer vigil was last night at St Michael's. Thank you so much. It looked like you had a really, really good group of people there. Very like group of people there. Very like standing room only situation.

Speaker 2: 1:46

It was definitely standing room only and, I think, a real gift to the community. We needed to be together.

Speaker 1: 1:52

Yeah, yeah, right. I think when things like this happen, we do need to be together. So many people are tying the green ribbons all over the neighborhood, which I think helps unite us, but talk to us about what else we can do to just kind of come together and support each other.

Speaker 2: 2:08

I think there are so many people who kind of just feel a bit frozen, a bit paralyzed, because it's a huge amount of grief, it's a shocking situation, a complete tragedy, and I think that it feels good to be helpful, but we don't necessarily know how to be, and so the first thing I would say is just don't be alone and go get out of your house. I think that most people in this community, whether they knew a person who suffered through that tragedy directly or not, it's close enough. People are heavy and they're carrying that around. I think we often have those little God nudges is what I think of them where you, a person, pops into your head and you wonder how they're doing, and I think that we have kind of created a culture where we don't feel like we want to bother someone and so maybe we'll text them, maybe not.

Speaker 2: 3:07

Calling them probably doesn't happen as often as it used to, and I would say, very first thing if you want to do anything, call the people you love. Don't text them, don't just think about them and pray for them, although that's good. Call them, because I think people need to talk to each other, they need to know they're not alone. I think theologically we say people are not alone, but we represent that sacred presence with one another. So reach out. That's, I think, step one.

Speaker 1: 3:37

I think that's really good advice, because I was telling you before we started recording that I just feel like I have every emotion you could imagine swirling around me as of right now. I don't personally know any of the families, but I think as parents, we can all relate. So many of us have sent our kids to camp. We can visualize what that looks like and knowing that they're there safe and having a great time, and predicting when we're going to be picking them up and all the things and just all these emotions and this energy. The things and just all these emotions and this energy like I don't know what to do with it. I want to find a positive way to an outlet to channel it into, but I don't know what that is, and I'm sure other people feel the same way well.

Speaker 2: 4:16

So, in addition, to just reach out to people you love, it doesn't have to directly be regarding the flooding in the hill Country. You can just reach out because, regardless of whether people know someone affected or not, someone could be like you, where you don't necessarily know the families directly, but you are watching and reading and it's heavy, and so you just need to talk to someone. I think there are others who will feel the same way. The other thing I would say is helping people always makes us feel better.

Speaker 2: 4:47

Because the intensity of the flooding in the Hill Country is so focused right now, I think it's easy for us to say we need to help them or we're not doing anything good. Remember, there are people in need all the time, all around us. It doesn't have to actually do explicitly with the flooding. Go deliver meals on wheels, go visit elderly people who may be isolated in a nursing home. Go serve at a food pantry. Go clean up a street, go do anything that would be pretty normative in service and I think, just simply using your gifts, using your skills, feeling empowered to make the world a better place, that will naturally help use up that nervous energy that we've gotten from reading all of this news.

Speaker 1: 5:43

Okay, that is a really excellent point, something I haven't thought about because, you're right, I've been so focused on the town and the people affected and there's definitely other opportunities out there that we can help with right now. We don't need to wait to see what someone tells us is now the needs for this particular group. We can go channel that somewhere else. I hadn't even thought about that.

Speaker 2: 6:03

Well, because helping feels good and even if you're not helping with that one particular tragedy, helping in general is going to really fill you up.

Speaker 1: 6:15

Well, grief in general is something that the whole community is dealing with.

Speaker 2: 6:20

Yes.

Speaker 1: 6:21

And just by nature of what you do, you know you deal with this all the time and that's one reason I really wanted to have you on today. I'm so grateful you were able to join us is because you were experienced with it and you can talk to us about how everyone can handle all the things they're going through. And then I want to get to how do we talk to our children about this? Because there's so many young children out there affected.

Speaker 2: 6:45

Absolutely. Grief in general is something that has to have a theological perspective. For me, because of what I do, I am not a clinical psychologist or counselor or anything like that. So, as a priest, what I think for me is most important to say is that we believe our grief, the weight of the pain in the world, is something that we cannot carry on our own. Something that I said to a reporter yesterday is that there's this saying that happens in Christian circles all the time God does not give you more than you can handle, and I lift that up as just about the worst theology that we can ascribe to, because actually, the entire idea of Christianity is that the weight of our life and the world and the pain and the heartbreak that we will suffer as we live, is more than we can handle on our own. That is the point of Jesus. That's an excellent point. That's the point of actually having someone with us by our side, helping to carry the weight that is actually too heavy for us to carry, and so the very first thing I would want everyone to know is that you don't actually have to carry that on your own, and there are some weights that are just too heavy and we can actually hand those over to God. And that's really the beauty of a life of faith is that we actually yoke ourselves to a God who loves us, who actually understands what it means to suffer and to lose and to hurt, so that when we go through that kind of pain, we know that God can lift that from our shoulders and can actually help carry us in those lowest of lows.

Speaker 2: 8:40

Now you also asked about talking with children. This is perhaps what's weighing on so many people maybe the majority of people because, unlike a lot of tragedies, this was a tragedy that their lives. There were hundreds of other children who were saved, but not after going through a real trauma, and so not only those children but their friends who are here in this community are now struggling with the reality of the fear that that kind of trauma can create. Yeah, first thing I always tell parents when it comes to talking about grief with children is do not sugarcoat, do not use euphemistic language, do not say things like a person passed away. That doesn't make sense to children.

Speaker 2: 9:43

We need to speak plainly, we need to say someone died. Use that language, use it confidently, because what I like to say to parents is children do not fear death until we teach them to, and so we may be having a whole bunch of feelings about death. Children are experiencing death in a very pure way. It actually is natural and it does make sense, and I think we should not be so quick to put our own anxieties and our own fears of death and of pain and of heartbreak based on our life experience, on these young, young children who just haven't had the kinds of experiences yet that we have. We actually get a chance to teach them that death is not something that they should fear. It may be sad, but we can separate sadness from fear and we can teach them that we can hold sadness and hope at the same time.

Speaker 1: 10:51

That is such an excellent point because I know we all as adults we've had a lifetime of, you know, kind of getting in our heads and fearing it. And you're right, we don't need to put that onto these young children at all.

Speaker 2: 11:04

We really don't. And for those of us who have sought to raise our children in some life of faith, we forget that we've taught them from the very beginning a fundamental, rooted story about death. For those of us who raise our kids in a Christian faith community, our entire story is about Jesus dying. So actually, death is not some shocking unknown to these children. We have, from the very earliest ages, told them a story about the person Jesus dying and resurrecting. The promise that God makes us is that death is not the end, it's just a change in our life. Now we may miss the people who die. Of course we do, and we can be sad to lose the people we love. Of course we can be sad. But our entire story, and where we are meant to root our entire identity, is that promise of resurrection beyond death itself. Young children they get this. We're the ones who forget. I think you're right.

Speaker 2: 12:14

Yes, I mean, you know you talk to three, four, five, six-year-olds. They completely understand this idea of Jesus died and was resurrected. They get it because we teach them. And so when we can talk to them very plainly about that kind of death and, with courage, be sad and hopeful at the same time, we are giving them a huge gift, because this kind of experience can be a trauma that puts them on a path toward a lot of hurt in the future, or it can be a trauma that gives them a real foundation in true hopefulness, even in the face of struggle.

Speaker 1: 12:59

Well, how do that keyword that you just said their hopefulness how can you pass along to people to feel more hopeful when they're going through such a time like this, like our whole community is feeling it? Everywhere you go you can feel it like. How can we instill more hopefulness in everyone?

Speaker 2: 13:21

I want to be careful not to make hope sound cheap or shallow. It's not about ignoring the feelings of sadness or ignoring the feeling of heaviness that weighs on us. Hope is a much richer, more profound sense. It's actually allowing ourselves to feel all the feelings and to not stay in those feelings permanently. It's allowing the light to pierce that darkness and, even if it might be just a pinprick of light, to recognize and in a sense celebrate that the light is always there. And so don't push yourself out of grief too fast and don't feel guilty about going through all the stages of grief.

Speaker 2: 14:20

I was just talking with a person this morning who is so angry about what happened and then felt guilty about feeling angry, and I said wait, wait, wait, feel angry, that is no problem. Feel the grief, feel the sadness, feel the anger, but keep related to God. God can handle anything we want to hand over to him. God has taken grief and anger and pain and heartbreak since the beginning of time, and so lay it all down there, because if we stay related to God and if we allow ourselves to be honest in our pain and our anger, we are actually living into the hope, because what we are saying when we do that is that we believe God will be faithful to us and that, even when we have all of this pain, that God will not leave our side, that God will not leave us alone and that God will ultimately move us toward a place of healing. So I want to make sure that that hopefulness is not a cheap ignorance of the pain, but instead it's actually just saying that this too will pass.

Speaker 2: 15:35

There's, you know, the saying that many and many churches say you know, god is good all the time. That isn't a statement for only when things are going well. That's actually a mantra to remind us of that little bit of light. Even when it seems like everything is far, far too dark. God is good all the time is like a North Star for us, so that even when we can't see around us, even when the pain seems overwhelming, remembering that God is good all the time, that is actually living into the hope. Now we may not feel that hope very powerfully today, maybe not tomorrow or next week, but we will feel it more and more over time and that time will help us to heal, sure, sure.

Speaker 1: 16:22

I like that a lot Well, so I feel like I always am at a loss for words when people are going through things like this and I never know what to say to people. Can you talk to us about how we can support people that are actually affected, these families, and what we can say? Is there anything that we can do for them?

Speaker 2: 16:41

It's a great question because I think we naturally want to try and fix the hurt.

Speaker 1: 16:47

I know yes, yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:49

We can't.

Speaker 1: 16:50

No, fix the hurt we can't.

Speaker 2: 16:51

I think being with people, not even saying or doing anything, is most important. That ministry of presence is really powerful. I think a lot of people who are suffering, a lot of people who feel that loss and that pain, actually just want you to be with them. And it's hard for us because we want to say the right words and we want to do the right things and actually what they need is for us to just be there.

Speaker 1: 17:20

To just be there, right.

Speaker 2: 17:22

I worked as a chaplain for a summer, which is what most people who are ordained have to do at some point. People who are ordained have to do at some point and in the hospital, as a chaplain, the one big thing I learned was I cannot fix what is wrong, but I can be with people in that pain, and so I had to learn a very hard lesson, which was just being with people and saying I'm sorry, I'm sorry this happened to you, I'm sorry you're hurt, and letting that be enough is very powerful, and simply being present with people in that pain can actually make a far greater impact on their healing than we could ever imagine.

Speaker 1: 18:10

I feel like I was maybe overthinking it. We all do, I do.

Speaker 2: 18:15

See, I still do, and I've been doing this for decades. I still want to actually help take away that pain and I have to remind myself I cannot, yeah, and instead I can sit and I can remind them that they're loved and I can tell them that I'm sorry that they are going through such a heartbreak.

Speaker 1: 18:34

Yeah, I'm just trying to think if I was actually one of these parents, like I think I agree with you I would just want my closest family and friends to be right there. There's nothing that they can say or do that will make things any better, but just knowing that they're there to support you, I think you're dead on.

Speaker 2: 18:50

I mean unfortunately. I have been with many families over the years who have lost children impossibly hard, yeah, and one of the things that I remind them of is that the death of their child is not okay and it will not be okay. We are never actually seeking to get to a place where we will be okay with a child dying. It's never okay. Yeah, with a child dying, it's never okay. Instead, we are seeking a place where we can accept that it happened and accept that we can turn something good out of something so horrible. We often we I don't people often like to say something about God's plan when children die.

Speaker 2: 19:37

Excuse me, god did not plan for a child to die, these sweet girls who died in the flood. That was not God's plan. God's heart was the first to break when they were lost in that flood, but God's heart breaks with ours and God remains faithful to us. God's heart breaks with ours and God remains faithful to us. And because of God's faithfulness, met with ours, we can actually turn good out of bad. That's what healing is all about. It's not about ever feeling good about the bad thing that happened, of course not. It's not about validating this horrible tragedy, because we should not. Instead, we can get to a place where we acknowledge something horrible happened and we can turn that horrible something into good in the future.

Speaker 1: 20:33

There's a mom in our neighborhood who lost her sweet daughter not all that long ago and she definitely has turned it into a lot of good. She's had laws changed, she's just so many wonderful things. She started a foundation to raise awareness for the way that the daughter was lost and I agree with you there's a lot of people out there that are able to turn it around and turn it into a positive and make a difference for people going forward.

Speaker 2: 20:59

Oh yeah, God did not plan the bad stuff, but with God's help we can certainly turn the bad into something good.

Speaker 1: 21:06

Well, we're a very strong community here. We come together like things like your prayer vigil last night with your big crowd that you had and the green ribbons around the community showing that we support each other. How do you think we can move forward together and just get through this?

Speaker 2: 21:24

I think you've just named it and we are so lucky to live in a community that is quite tight and people who actually know each other ahead of moments of tragedy like this, because being physically together whether that's praying together in a sacred space like we held yesterday, whether that is showing support physically through ribbons on trees or making gifts to the families who have experienced this traumatic loss, or being physically present and trying to turn something good out of something so bad I do think being together is what matters most. And so it kind of goes back to the very beginning of our conversation. Just don't stay by yourself.

Speaker 1: 22:11

Get out of your house, just get out of your house. I love that.

Speaker 2: 22:14

Go do something for another person. It could be someone you know, it could be a total stranger. When we are together, we manifest the very best of us. I mean, of course you know, as a priest I would say Jesus said when two or three are gathered together, there I will be. He didn't say when you're by yourself. Now, of course we can pray by ourselves, but I think ideally when we gather together, that's really when we manifest God's peace and God's love. And so get out and go, be together, do things together, even if it's mundane. Ideally you would be kind of using your gifts to help people, but even if it's just take a walk, just don't be alone. Yeah, because when we are together we are much better.

Speaker 1: 23:01

I would agree 100%. And I mean I just feel so silly that I didn't think of some of the things you suggested, because I've been kind of isolating myself in my room away from the family and no one understands why I'm, you know, sad and all that, and that's just perfect advice.

Speaker 2: 23:17

Just be sad together. Right right, it actually helps us heal. Okay, I love that.

Speaker 1: 23:22

Chris, there's a lot of organizations in the neighborhood who are doing amazing things and you know, providing resources just to help everyone in the community. What does St Michael's have going on?

Speaker 2: 23:34

We are definitely supporting relief efforts in the Hill Country. We have a general relief fund that we use to support relief efforts all around the country and beyond in the world, and so there are plenty of other agencies doing that same kind of work. I'd love to encourage people to actually get involved in their faith community. I think that, as we've said, being together really helps the healing process, and I would be remiss if I didn't say go to church. I think there's so many people who are connected in some way to a church and other faith communities go.

Speaker 2: 24:09

One of the things I love about the Episcopal Church, I love at St Michael, is that you don't have to feel good to go to church. I think a lot of people kind of put in their mind they need to feel good, they need to feel put together. That's when they go to church. Actually, no, when you do not feel good and when you feel a total hot mess, that's actually when you should go to church. Because we are there. It's like a hospital for the people who are hurting, and so at a moment like this, that is exactly when you go, go to pray, go to light a candle, go to sing. I cannot tell you yesterday, when I was designing the vigil service, one of the things I was quite clear about is I wanted everyone talking and singing, and so the vigil service was a lot of praying with the congregation. It was written down, call response and it was a lot of singing, because that deep breath and that singing together, man, that is healing in its own. And so I really want people to not only get connected to those in their neighborhood or their community friends that they may not have talked to for a while, but go to church, actually get there and go.

Speaker 2: 25:21

Places like St Michael I can speak to. We are staffed with a lot of clergy and other professional ministers who are very happy to have conversations with anyone who needs help in their own grief or in speaking with their loved ones, especially with their children. This is actually what we do, and so we are very open. You do not have to be a member, just call up, show up. We are very happy to help.

Speaker 2: 25:49

And there are other organizations, as you name. One of them is in our office building, the Halston Center. They're focused on a lot of support for children and teens and right now they're offering these free counseling sessions, especially for those who have been affected most significantly from the flooding, and so there is a lot in our community. So not only reach out yourself, but please do be an advocate for the people you know. If there are people you know who are isolating themselves, who seem overwhelmed and paralyzed, advocate on their behalf. That might mean encouraging them. That might also mean reaching out to churches like ours, so that we can then reach out to the people who seem isolated and encourage them along their path of healing.

Speaker 1: 26:38

Well, perfect. I feel like you've shared so many opportunities just to support everyone in our community, you know, no matter what they're going through right now. Just so many opportunities to help lift people up and get this community to a better place.

Speaker 2: 26:53

That's what we do for each other. I mean, it's a privilege to be able to encourage one another, especially in times like this.

Speaker 1: 26:59

Well, it truly is a gift that you have to be able to lift people up during their worst times in life, and I can't thank you enough for sharing your gifts with us today, chris.

Speaker 2: 27:08

Well, thank you for giving me an opportunity, and I encourage everyone to keep the faith and keep the hope.

Speaker 1: 27:15

Absolutely Well, that's been another episode of the Bubble Lounge. I'm Martha Jackson and I'll see you next time.