Speaker 1: 0:07

Hello and Happy New Year. Welcome to the Bubble Lounge. I'm Martha Jackson. It's that time of year where we're all looking for a fresh start and we're wanting to accomplish goals for the year. So much out there is all about how the individual can accomplish their goals, but not so much about how to help our kids with their goals and, more importantly, how moms can accomplish their goals, but not so much about how to help our kids with their goals and, more importantly, how moms can accomplish their goals, because it turns out it's really hard for moms to accomplish their goals. And to find out why I invited Dr Kelly Jamison to join us. Dr Jamison, welcome to the show, thanks for having me back. Well, it's that time of year where we're all just kind of focusing and trying to reset and set our goals and intentions for the new year and we're just taking that time to reflect back and come up with a new plan. And how important is it to reflect back on the previous year when you're setting your new goals?

Speaker 2: 0:57

So important because you don't really know what to adjust if you don't look back.

Speaker 1: 1:01

So I think it's really important Well what are some ways that we can evaluate what worked and what didn't work and come up with a new way of doing things? Good question.

Speaker 2: 1:12

Last night my sixth grader brought home kind of a reflective activity for the new year and one of the questions I loved was what do you want to leave behind in 2024? And I'd love that question because really people get excited about resolutions not so much for what you want, but really what to leave behind. Like you want a better version of yourself, which is really the crux of a resolution. So it's important to look back so you know what to leave behind. That is almost more of the gold than what's to come is to the stuff you leave behind. So it's so important to look back and evaluate, otherwise you don't really know what to change and which direction you're going.

Speaker 1: 1:51

Well, we're talking about, you know, working with our kids and setting goals and expectations for the year. And I happen to have one kid that just magically did it. She would create goal sheets and real cute little markers and little action items of how to accomplish that. And then I have another one that really isn't so goal-oriented, and how do we encourage that behavior?

Speaker 2: 2:14

Yeah Well, for students. I think as adults we think of the new year as level one clean slate, but for students it's really halftime. Yeah, true. So when I had my clients this week I had a ton of high schoolers yesterday. It really wasn't so much a New Year's resolution narrative like it is with adults, but with the kids, the students who are still in school. It's, you know, this is basically halftime of your grade.

Speaker 2: 2:40

So tell me how fall semester went, and it was. We talked about grades, academics, study habits, friends, social, all the things, and then what to adjust for spring semester. So for students, they really get kind of two fresh starts. They get their August fresh start with all the new things and the new grade and that's all very much exciting. But then now it's halftime for them and this is really like the locker room talk, you know, like what went well first semester and then what do we need to change? So it's easier for kids. Plus, they don't think long term like adults, they think in the moment. So it's a really great conversation for them because they can think about oh, how did I study or what did I do socially that maybe I need to adjust. So I actually love this time of year, working with students more so than having this conversation with adults.

Speaker 1: 3:29

Okay, I really liked how you put that, because I guess it's been so long since I've been in school that I hadn't really thought about you know that they do get three starts a year and being halftime right now it's a really unique perspective on it. Well, let's talk about breaking down goals, because a lot of times I get really overwhelmed. I get super excited about all these things I want to accomplish and then I just get overwhelmed because the big picture just seems kind of unattainable. But like, maybe how can we pick out those what should be most important to us for the year? And then how do we break that down further into actionable items so we actually accomplish these things?

Speaker 2: 4:03

Well, I think for both adults and teenagers anyway, I can't really speak for kids, but the immediate thought is health. So both adults and teenagers, they want to talk about drinking more water, exercising, eating less fast food. You know, we immediately go to health and that is a that's a daunting task and it's been my experience watching people in therapy that really no one's sticking to let's call them health goals unless there's a health scare or there's some sort of trauma in someone's life that has really just messed everything up to the point of every part of their life has changed, including their diet and lifestyle. But for the most part, the goals that most people throw out in New Year's are really hard because they're long-term goals and we don't really live in a culture now of thinking about the long term. Everything's immediate gratification. So to think, okay, between now and spring break or now and summer, I want to have these health goals, is really heavy lifting for anyone living in our culture today. So that makes all of this New Year's resolution talk entirely difficult. So breaking them down is the easy part and putting it on paper is the easy part and, yes, you can snag an accountability partner and you can do all those things.

Speaker 2: 5:15

But really, at the end of the day, we are talking about a brain shift, because when we talk, you know. When you're talking about something, what you want to have lunch for today or what you want to accomplish when you go home today you're using one part of your brain. You're using your prefrontal cortex, which is like executive functioning, things like that. When you're talking about long-term goals and I'm talking saving money, earning a degree, any sort of training for a marathon, like long-term goals you're using a completely different part of your brain. So what we know about the brain is this is the cool part habits are formed as a way of your brain to conserve energy.

Speaker 2: 5:52

So to do something differently is to tell your brain not to do the thing it always does to conserve energy. So let me explain. So in the morning, your morning routine is probably pretty set. I know mine is I get up, I drink coffee, I wake up a couple of my children, I let the dog out, and these are sort of automatic. I don't have to think about these things. So when habits become automatic, it's the brain's way of hitting cruise control, because it's conserving energy for anything else during the day that it has to process. Are you with me so far?

Speaker 1: 6:23

I am.

Speaker 2: 6:23

Okay. So all of these habits are automatic. It's your brain's way to just hold on to energy because it doesn't know what's coming today. Okay, so, when we try to change a habit so instead of you know, getting up, drinking coffee, waking up the kids and letting the dog out if suddenly on January 1st you say, okay, now I'm going to get up and I'm going to get on the treadmill or I'm going to drink hot tea your brain is like wait, what? Wait? That's not what we do.

Speaker 2: 6:48

And you're making the brain use up energy that it doesn't want to use up on menial tasks like your morning routine. So that's where we get. The rub is because the automated brain conserves energy. So when we tell it to do something different, it's like I don't want to work on this. I want to work on, you know, the big meeting at two o'clock, but I don't know what's coming. So when we talk about New Year's resolutions and goal setting, it all sounds very easy to do, you know, make them small, make them measurable, get an accountability partner, write them down. It sounds all very simple in theory, but you're really asking the brain to do a complete mental shift, which is why most of these things fall apart.

Speaker 1: 7:28

Okay, that is so interesting because it's reminding me of something that has happened with me recently, as my friends at Getting it Done Organizing got me on a new project management system called Basecamp and they spent a couple of hours with me teaching me how to use it. And it just made so much sense because, as you know, a lot of people with ADD we write things on sticky notes. We lose the sticky notes, they get to become very cumbersome. It's really not a good system and it was definitely not working for me and it was a wonderful idea and it was really going to get me on track, and it's just too easy to go back to the sticky notes and I'm finding them making their way back to my desk again and I really want to stop that. But it's going to require me to really make it a habit, right?

Speaker 2: 8:14

right, because your brain wants to go back to the sticky notes so it doesn't have to think it's conserving energy for the rest of your day and parenting and working and all the things I wanted to give a personal thank you to our good friend and show sponsor, Kathy Elwall State Farm Agency.

Speaker 1: 8:29

We have known Kathy for more than 15 years and there is no person we trust more when it comes to insurance than Kathy Elwall. Kathy is always available to help you find the right insurance for your family needs, Whether it's covering your home, auto or providing a life insurance policy tailored to the unique needs of families in Highland Park. My family trusts Kathy with our insurance and we hope you will too. Please visit kathylwallcom to learn more and let her know that Martha from the Bubble Lounge sent you. Well, you did mention accountability partners. How important is it to actually be accountable to somebody?

Speaker 2: 9:05

Well, the research shows that it's incredibly helpful to have accountability partners in any sort of goal. It just keeps you on task, it creates deadlines, it has value. You respect the other person. So, when in doubt, always use an accountability partner. They can do nothing but help in terms of a goal.

Speaker 1: 9:25

Well, in terms of our teens, how can we help them? By being their accountability partner, while also empowering them to, you know, take responsibility and make things happen on their own.

Speaker 2: 9:39

Yeah Well, parents are not likely going to be the best accountability partner to a teen. Yeah Well, parents are not likely going to be the best accountability partner to a teen. It comes off as nagging, it comes off as that. We don't get it. So we're probably not the best choice for your teen's accountability partner. And, frankly, their friends may not be either. Remember, they're in the same stage of life, so their brains are processing and making choices in the same way. So if one wants to kind of blow off the, you know the class or the walk or whatever they had decided, it's going to take, you know, 0.2 seconds for the other one to be like okay. So that's probably not. The best accountability partner for teens is a parent or a peer right now, what are we looking at?

Speaker 2: 10:22

we're looking at teachers. We're looking at coaches. We're looking at teachers. We're looking at coaches. We're looking at youth group leaders. We're looking at other adults in their life that they respect and value, that can keep them accountable, but it's likely not going to be a parent or a friend.

Speaker 1: 10:34

No, that's a really good point. And all the people that you just listed. They play such a huge role in our kids' lives and I appreciate them so much for that, because it does take a third party for your kid to go like, oh okay, yeah, that makes sense, Even though it may have been exactly what you were telling them all along, Exactly Because parents they feel parents are obligated to do certain things, even though we do it from a place of love.

Speaker 2: 10:57

It feels obligatory to them. And then friends. You know they're just, they go out of the lines quickly with friends. And then friends, they go out of the lines quickly with friends.

Speaker 1: 11:04

Well, what do we do about setbacks? Because inevitably something happens like what happened with me. It's too easy to go back to old habits and things like that, but when we get off course and we kind of lose track of our goals, how do we get back on track?

Speaker 2: 11:21

Right? Well, there's things that you can preempt, to kind of avoid getting off track, and that is sort of basic human maintenance of staying rested and hydrated and fed and things like that, because we know that a tired brain is very likely to go off the script. There's a famous study called the Stanford Stress Test and basically they split students into two groups. They gave group number one two numbers to remember and group number two seven numbers to remember and they gave them the morning to kind of figure it out. And then right before lunch they offered them a snack and the group that only had to remember two numbers picked a salad, and the group that had to remember seven numbers so basically they were under stress, like cognitive overload they all chose the piece of cake.

Speaker 2: 12:10

Oh my gosh, that's interesting. It is interesting because a tired brain just wants for the easy button and they want the quick fix. So one way to kind of make sure that you're hitting your goals is to do basic human maintenance so that your brain is not overloaded or tired or exhausted. And as parents we know this. When the kids were little, if they were hungry, tired, angry, lonely, you know they were dysregulated, right, they got cranky, exactly. So the same thing happens with goals. You have to be well regulated for you to kind of stay on point with the goals.

Speaker 1: 12:45

So is it possible for everybody to be able to set goals and accomplish them?

Speaker 2: 12:55

Well, great question. And not exactly so. A couple of things go into play with goal setting and New Year's resolutions and there are a couple of things. Personality is one of them. So take the teenagers that I work with In August. You know obviously we talk a lot about goal setting in August in therapy and my type A perfectionistic a lot of firstborns only children. Of course they love this Because they do this naturally on the daily. They love making lists and goals and working to meet those. That is that matches the personality profile of these type A kids Like they. They get such a dopamine hit when they mark off their to-do list and when they achieve the goals that they set for themselves and they make the Dean's list or they make the honor roll. They literally thrive off of these types of things. But if you have a child who's more of a B personality or, you know, like child number three or something, so it's not as natural to these kids. So this is a little bit more of a project for them. It doesn't come as naturally. So how do you parent these two children in terms of goal setting? So in August you have to find out what motivates them. So the school year is easy Everyone. When I ask kids in therapy what are your goals for the school year, Of course everyone says I want to make straight A's across the board. If I had a dollar for every time, a student said that I could retire. That's just everyone's goal. And then, in January, when I asked the same question, it is always about health and fitness. So those are.

Speaker 2: 14:29

But I also have to take into account the personality styles of these kids. Is this a child that runs on the anxious side? If so, goal setting for them can be very triggering, because this feels like something they have to achieve and if they don't achieve it, they will be perceived as a failure or less than, and this can totally stress them out and they can slip into some negative coping mechanisms. So you have to be careful when you're thinking about this type of language with your children and which one you can really lean into and get into the goals and all the things, and which one is it going to stress them out? And then what other children, the more easygoing let's call them kids like they could care less about setting goals. They're just happy to show up to school, start the new year and get going and see their friends. So we have to be realistic, parenting these kids about their birth order which I love talking about birth order because I believe it really makes up a lot of the personality profile of these kids the actual personality profile, meaning extrovert, introvert, where they get their energy, where they feel value and seen, and then the makeup of the family.

Speaker 2: 15:35

Right. If your house is kind of a hot mess and you're all talking about goals, it's just a complete waste of time. The environment of a child who's living in a chaotic, messy environment cannot be expected to sit down and make a very clear and concise list of goals and New Year's resolutions. So it's this whole package that has to go into it. So you know, when I'm working with an anxious kid, I'm very cautious about talking about goals with them because they're already stressed out. I don't need to add to it. But if it's someone who's barely getting by, who probably has a little bit more potential than what they're applying to school or their sport or whatever, that's the one I can really dig into. But it's a balance. So this question and this whole topic is more sensitive to certain people than others and it comes more naturally to some people than others.

Speaker 1: 16:26

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Speaker 1: 17:14

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Speaker 2: 17:50

Oh, it's my favorite. It's literally my favorite. And you know psychologists are split on it. Half of them think it really is something to be studied and valued and really is important to an individual's profile, and then the other half thinks other factors are way more influential. I can't do what I do every day in the therapy room and have been in the classroom for so many years and not believe that birth order is absolutely correct.

Speaker 2: 18:19

So the quick nutshell version is that firstborns, and only children, tend to be perfectionistic, high, achieving, organized, concise things like that, because there's no other other. The people in front of them are adults, so their model of how to be and how to do things are adults, and adults are generally efficient and organized and things like that. So they're getting the adult model of how to do life and because they're little and they are want to please their parents, they're going to emulate their parents. Then you get number two and then you get number three and subsequent children, and the number two child is what we call the branching off theory. So whatever the first child was like, whether they're type A, imperfectionistic or the opposite, child number two will be the opposite of child number one, and this is really just a way that children get their needs met, and the primary resource in a young person's life is parental attention. So child number two will look at child number one and say, okay, they're getting mom or dad's attention by being this way and you would think that they would emulate that. But the opposite is true. They behave in a different way to pull attention from sort of a different resource of parents. That's how we get child number one and child number two are usually very different children and then child number three or four tends to be the more comical, more easygoing, the more lighthearted, because there's different roles that are checked in a family.

Speaker 2: 19:52

So child number one is perfectionistic, compliant, rule, following things like that. Child number two is the opposite. That's going to be the more rebellious child who kind of bucks the system, rolls their eyes, things like that. And then child number three well, what's left? So that child often has to get his needs, his or her needs, met attention through parents, by being silly, by being funny, by being the comic relief of the family, and really that's the hardest part to play, because that requires a lot of vulnerability and a lot of silliness and a lot of putting yourself out there.

Speaker 2: 20:30

That child number one is definitely not going to do, and then child number two would rather do anything else. But child number three tends to be the most lighthearted of the family because it takes the most risk, right? If I'm in a classroom of students and I ask you you know a last born to come up and tell a joke or do a dance, they will do that with no problem. If I said who are my first borns? Come up here and I'm going to put some music on and you have to dance to it, they would rather die right. So each of these roles are well defined, and not in every family, but enough that we can call it a thing, and it's really just a way for each individual child to get parents' attention, because there's a limited amount of parental resources, so kids have to be different to get the attention of mom and dad.

Speaker 1: 21:17

Oh, my gosh, this is so fascinating, like I'm just hanging on every word you're saying. I came from a family with just an older sibling, so just two of us, and again at my house, two kids. And that is very true. I was very opposite of my brother and my kids are very opposite, but then my head is swirling with different families that I know that have four and five kids, and I mean everything you're saying is dead on, spot on for sure that the more kids, the sillier, maybe more rebellious they are for sure. The more kids, the sillier, maybe more rebellious they are for sure.

Speaker 2: 21:46

Yeah, and the more kids you have, the more unique they have to be to get the parental resource. But then there's all these nuances about birth order. So if there's more than like five or six years between children, birth order resets. So if you have, let's say, a girl first and then you wait five or six years and you have another girl, they could both have very much firstborn tendencies.

Speaker 2: 22:09

So there's a few other little nuances in birth order that make it really fun to study. And then there's twins and then there's blended families and it's a really fun topic and basically, if you ask any educator, they're like oh yeah, we know this to be true, we know this to be true, we this to be true. We had a teacher actually the kindergarten teacher who had all three of my kids part of her initial information form about your family. She would always ask about birth order and then on parent night she would share the statistics and she would say you know, 80 of this class are firstborns. So she would tailor her curriculum based on if she had majority majority firstborns or lastborns or middles or things like that, because she really believed children behave in a way based on their birth order. That is a sign of a really good teacher.

Speaker 1: 22:54

I know I mean to take that much time to look into that. I think that's really brilliant and probably more teachers should do that.

Speaker 2: 23:01

I agree. Shout out to Ms Franklin.

Speaker 1: 23:03

Well, we've talked a lot about goals and just how to set them and how to have actionable items and accountability and all the things, but is there anything that, as moms, we can be doing?

Speaker 2: 23:14

Well, Martha, let's use you as an example. So, have you set any goals for 2025? You don't have to tell me what they are, yes or no. I have yes, okay, great. So are they like the more long-term goals that we talked about earlier, or are they more short-term goals?

Speaker 1: 23:30

There's one that's long-term, the others are a little bit more short-term.

Speaker 2: 23:34

Okay, Moms are generally not great at this, because we want to make sure everyone else is taken care of. So if a mom sets a goal, she's not likely to stick to it because all of life gets in the way and someone needs something and it's going to throw you off. So for moms, my best advice, and for you specifically, is really, instead of taking on really a difficult long-term goal, is to layer in smaller, joyful resolutions. So, for example, I'm trying to pull together a book club right now, so I'm reaching out to a few friends and several of them just this morning actually replied back yes, reading more is actually one of my New Year's resolutions. So I'm in is what a lot of them said this morning.

Speaker 2: 24:17

So, instead of thinking about resolutions as this arduous, difficult, not fun projects, maybe moms and you and me and all of us can specifically think of fun things to add in. Oh, we're actually allowed to have some fun on this. So New Year's resolution could be to read more, to play Mahjong more to you know, take more walks with my girlfriends or check in on people more regularly, and those are fun. And when you hit that box for the day, let's say you texted me or we met for lunch or something, you're going to get a hit of dopamine which is going to make you want to do it again.

Speaker 1: 24:55

Okay, I was literally just thinking yes, dopamine, hit here. Yes, Some of these other things that we all have on our list, not so much Exactly, so you know the brain seeks pleasure and familiarity.

Speaker 2: 25:02

Exactly so you know. The brain seeks pleasure and familiarity. So if you add in things that are joyful and pleasurable, your brain wants to do more of those and obviously you're going to stick with that, because it's fun to go to lunch with people and it's fun to check in with people and it's fun to do these more personal goals. But moms are just really really bad at this because we have the belief that we don't have the time. Yeah, it's ridiculous. And then we wear ourselves out and then we get upset and we just don't invest in ourselves. So for moms, if anything, please make 2025 the year of some fun, joyful resolutions for yourself and watch where that goes.

Speaker 1: 25:43

I know it will have a trickle-down effect actually, because I can't tell you how many times I've gone out to lunch with a friend and I didn't think I had time, but I made the time and we didn't talk about anything important, I didn't complain about anything or anything like that, but when I came home I just kind of had a pep in my step, I just felt good and happy. Yeah, because you flooded your system with dopamine, exactly, and it feels good and that will, like I said, trickle down into other areas of your life and you'll be better at all the other things, precisely. Well, this has been so much fun to talk to you. Again, I appreciate you coming in so much. Thanks for having me, of course, and how can people find you?

Speaker 2: 26:18

Online. My website is drkellyjamesoncom. I also post a whole bunch of stuff on Instagram. That's fun too.

Speaker 1: 26:24

And, as always, I will include links to those for you, so you don't have to remember them. Well, that's been another episode of the Bubble Lounge. I'm Martha Jackson and I'll see you next time.