The Black Widow of Highland Park

Speaker 1 0:00

This episode sponsored by Kathy L Wall . State Farm Agency . Learn more at kathylwallcom . And Stuart Arango Oral Surgery . Learn more at saoralsurgeonscom . And Tequila Comos luxury tequila refined . Ask for it by name at Pogo , spex or your favorite liquor store . Welcome to the Bubble Lounge . I'm Martha Jackson and I'm Nellie Sciutto . And Nellie , I don't know if you attended the 100-year celebration down at the park last weekend for UP . It was amazing . I did not attend it , but you found a great subject in our interviewee today . Yeah , no , the reason I bring it up in tying in today with today's episode is I just was looking around at all the sweet families and just how pristine our neighborhood is and it just looks so picture perfect most of the times , but then when it's not , there's something that flares up every now and then a big scandal , something really juicy , like it's just so over the top , which is why we invited today's guest in .

Speaker 2 1:04

Today , our guest is John Leake , who is a true crime . Author .

Speaker 1 1:07

That's right . He just released a book called the Meaning of Malice on the Trail of the Black Widow of Highland Park . It's all about a woman that lived in Highland Park in the 80s who had many mysterious circumstances in her life . It's an absolutely fascinating story , especially for everyone that lives here in the neighborhood . You are going to love this episode , hey Park City's families .

Speaker 1 1:29

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Speaker 3 2:28

Thanks for having me .

Speaker 1 2:29

Well , tell us a little bit about yourself and your connection to Highland Park .

Speaker 3 2:33

I was born and raised in Highland Park , grew up on Lorain Avenue for people who are familiar with the bubble , that's just a few blocks south of Beverly Drive and went to Highland Park High School . Graduated in 1989 . When I was a boy growing up on Lorain Avenue in the late 70s and early 80s we had a neighbor . She married a very socially gifted but also kind of a wheeler and dealer businessman husband named Bobby Bridewell . He's known in these parts principally for developing the mansion on Turtle Creek .

Speaker 3 3:12

Bobby , in the year 1978 , purchased a house down the street from my family home on Lorain Avenue , right after marrying a very intriguing , mysterious and beautiful lady . When he met her , her name was Sandra Stiegel . That was the name of her first husband . Bobby then married her and she became Sandra Bridewell , which is the name she achieved notoriety with , and she lived down the street . She had three children . They all went to the Highland Park Independent School District . I was friends with Sandra's second child , a girl named Catherine , who's exactly my age , and I started playing with Catherine in the years 82 and 83 , excuse me , 83 and 84 . And it was during that time that on a few occasions I encountered Sandra Bridewell in her home

Intrigues in True Crime Writing

Speaker 3 4:07

.

Speaker 2 4:07

So you must have been a writer from the beginning , because you were obviously very observant .

Speaker 3 4:12

Well , I had the good fortune to grow up in a very literate house . My dad had a big library , my parents were both readers , so I read a lot and I was starting around the age of 12 . I became a devotee of Stephen King novels . I read all of them Cujo , salem's , lot , the Shining . You know these were all really scary books . But you know , I have to say I mean Stephen King . We think of him as kind of a pop writer , but he is a true prose master . Kind of a pop writer , but he is a true prose master and in many ways I think I kind of imbibed a lot of his prose style , not to mention his interest in horrifying situations .

Speaker 3 4:56

So I think that was kind of my interpretive framework . You know , from a literary standpoint , as a kid I started reading Stephen King novels .

Speaker 1 5:04

And yeah , I was going to ask if it was your interest in Stephen King that got you into true crime .

Speaker 3 5:09

You know , it wasn't surprisingly enough . I was interested in crime novels like Stephen King or horror novels like Stephen King when I was a teenager , but I wasn't really interested in true crime . That was something that came about largely by accident . I was living in Vienna , austria , where I went on a graduate school scholarship , and while I was living in Vienna I stumbled across a true story about a Viennese author and journalist who , also unbeknownst to Viennese society at the time , was also a serial killer . He was leading a double life as kind of a minor celebrity author on the one hand and a serial killer by night on the other hand . And so I stumbled across this true story and I quickly ascertained that no one had written anything about it in English , and I just thought this is an incredible story .

Speaker 3 6:15

There was a book that had been published about it , but I quickly it was in German , and I quickly discovered that the author was in love with him . And I quickly discovered that the author was in love with him , meaning , and she was insisting that he was innocent . So I began to realize she's rather biased , she's not an unbiased researcher and teller of the tale . So that then became my first book . When you publish a true crime book and it does pretty well , then that kind of you stick with what you've been able to do . And so ever since I wrote and published my first book , I've just stuck with true crime and I discovered an affinity for it . I like investigative stuff and the other reason why I mentioned my first book is because while researching that first book I got to be friends with some forensic scientists who have been gracious and providing time and expertise to me ever since , and those forensic scientists have played a key role in my latest book .

Speaker 1 7:18

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Speaker 2 8:16

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Speaker 2 9:01

Remember , you've earned this moment . You've earned Comos . So I know you've written several books , but let's go back to this Highland Park story for a minute . You knew Mrs Bridewell and you observed her carefully and the story interested you because of that . Tell us the story for those of us who haven't read it well , the .

Speaker 3 9:19

The story is that when I encountered sandra and I hasten to add that I didn't know her I I encountered her .

Speaker 3 9:26

Yes , I was like 13 years old and then 14 . I uh , during those years I didn't know , in the year 1983 when I encountered her in her home that she was already , in 1983 , a very notorious woman in Highland Park . She was largely ostracized by our society . And the reason why she was regarded with fear and why she was ostracized in Highland Park society is because the year before I met her 1982 , year before I met her 1982 , she had fallen under suspicion for having something to do with the gunshot death of the wife of a famous , or should I say famous , a prominent local doctor , a cancer doctor . So Betsy Bagwell was the name of this woman who was found shot to death in her car in the short-term parking lot at Love Field in July of 82 . Betsy was the wife of Dr John Bagwell . He was a major oncologist at the Baylor University Medical Center . They had a house on Maplewood Avenue I think it's the prettiest part of Old Highland Park and they had two children and their son , andrew , was in the class just above me in Highland Park . I didn't know about this at the time , that is to say in 1983 . But I later discovered that all of the adults did . But I later discovered that all of the adults did , and I now understand that the death of Betsy Bagwell is really the moral heart of this story .

Highland Park Mystery

Speaker 3 11:10

Where my perceptions of Sandra pick back up is I noticed that Catherine , her daughter , with whom I was friends . I did notice that they moved in the year 1985 . And they moved to University Park near McCullough High School Excuse me , mccullough Middle School , over on Asbury Avenue . I was aware of that , but I mean , catherine was still there . She was still at middle school and still at high school Excuse me , still at high school by then . And then one day , just kind of seemingly out of the blue , catherine and her family just abruptly left Highland Park . This would have been the spring of 86 . And I was like what happened to Catherine ? Did she just leave ? And some mutual friends ? Yeah , they moved out to California .

Speaker 3 12:01

Okay , then in the year 1987 , this was my junior year in high school a friend of mine walks into the Highland Park High School cafeteria , holds up a copy of the May 2000 , excuse me , the May 1987 issue of D Magazine and the cover story features a photograph of Mrs Bridewell and it says death and gossip in Highland Park . And my friend says this is Catherine's mom and you're not going to believe this story . That D Magazine cover story in 1987 is a key piece of reporting in the unfolding of this story but , as I discovered as I got into my research , it's very incomplete . You know , I'm a great admirer of the lead author , skip Hollinsworth . He and I are actually friends and I think he did . I mean , he's a beautiful writer .

Speaker 3 12:58

I now believe that there were some constraints placed on how far he could go with this . I don't know how overtly those constraints were communicated , but particularly in the case of Betsy Bagwell , there is more in that D Magazine feature on the story . There's more redacted than there is reported . There are major redactions from that report which made me all the more intrigued . It's like what is going on with this story . So in the case of betsy bagwell , the dallas County medical examiner ruled her death a suicide , even though none of her friends believed that it was a suicide .

Speaker 2 13:49

And hadn't she been driven to the airport by With Sandra ?

Speaker 3 13:55

Yes , she's giving Sandra a ride to Love Field , purportedly to rent a car , because Sandra kept contacting the Bagwells and saying my car is broken down , it won't start . So purportedly , betsy says All right , I'm going to give you a ride to Love Field and while we're there you need to rent a car . So Betsy is last seen alive driving to Love Field with Sandra in her vehicle . Now she then doesn't come home . Later she's found shot to death in her vehicle at Love Field .

Speaker 3 14:31

The investigating officer asks Sandra well , like you know what's the deal , and Sandra says oh , betsy gave me a ride to Love Field to rent a car . I went into the rent car agency , discovered I didn't have my driver's license , so she gave me a ride back to Highland Park Presbyterian Church where my car had broken down , and to my surprise my car started right up . So I told Betsy oh you know , sorry for the inconvenience , looks like my car works after all . And then I don't know what happened to Betsy . I guess she decided to drive back to Love Field and kill herself . And so this is the outlines of what is reported in the D Magazine piece , and even at the time , as a 16-year-old boy , I thought that's a very weird story .

Speaker 1 15:21

It really is . So it sounds like you wanted to know more . You felt like you weren't getting what you needed from the D Magazine article , and so you got involved and you kind of took it up a few notches and really got some more information .

Speaker 3 15:33

Well , I did , but you know time elapsed . What happened was so that's 87 . Okay , fast forward 20 years . There had been reporting on Sandra by a very good investigative journalist named Glenna Whitley , who wrote for both D Magazine and the Dallas Observer wanderings around the country , but there was still all of these open questions about Betsy Bagwell . And then the other thing I didn't mention is Sandra's first husband .

Speaker 2 16:08

David Stiegel .

Speaker 3 16:11

This was not her first rodeo . This ain't her first rodeo . He too , in the year 1975 , had been found shot to death in the head , also in the head , also with a .22 caliber pistol . Shot to death in the head , also in the head , also the .22 caliber pistol . In his case , david was found in his marital bed in his home in Greenway Parks . Cops show up . Sandra says we were not sleeping in the

Speaker 3 16:31

same room . I woke up this morning , went into the master bedroom to check on him . He was lying in a pool of blood . I called the police , cops come do what I would characterize as a very cursory examination of the scene and conclude that he shot himself in his bed . So again , medical examiner , rules suicide . Okay . So by the time you get to Betsy seven years later , very similar circumstances , although it's in a vehicle and not at home in bed , but victim shot in the head with a .22 caliber pistol . Kind of looks like suicide . Again , ruled suicide . Now , the one thing that Sandra did in the case of Betsy Bagwell that I happen to think is extremely clever . So yeah , so that evening , when Betsy's found at Love Field , the investigating homicide detective goes to the Bagwell residence to notify the next of kin , which is Betsy's husband , john Okay , while the cops are at the Bagwell residence and they're talking like what could have happened to Betsy , why would you know ? Why was she at Love Field ? You know ? Why would she kill herself Apparently ? Who shows up at the Bagwell house ?

Speaker 2 17:54

Sandra .

Speaker 3 17:55

Sandra and she says well , I was at Latoska Restaurant over on Inwood when Dr Bagwell , who's a friend of mine , he called the restaurant and he summoned me to the phone and he asked me if I knew what had happened to Betsy . So I finished dinner with my friends who just happens to be an attorney , who just happens to be with me and I thought I wonder what happened to Betsy Boy . That's really worrisome . So we rushed over here right after dinner and that's when the police officer takes her statement and she said well , betsy and I drove to Love Field to get a car , we spent the whole day together , which wasn't true , which I know wasn't true and she really seemed kind of depressed and she wanted to talk to me about the death of my first husband . She seemed very interested in suicide and she wanted to know , you know , how did my first husband kill himself ?

Speaker 2 18:57

This is so crazy because she's almost she's bringing up the first murder .

Speaker 3 19:03

Which , by the way , I've spent a lot of time reading the psychiatric literature and cases of serial killers . It's not uncommon for a and I hasten to add , I believe , based on my research , that she is . But she's innocent until proven guilty . But what I can legally say is based on my five years of research . I believe that she is responsible for the death of Betsy Bagwell , as well as others , and what I can say is the literature on serial murder shows that a high-functioning serial murder oftentimes inserts himself or herself into the investigation . Now , what do I think she's up to ? First of all , she Betsy did not seek Sandra's company to talk about suicide . I have evidence that's false . That is a false claim , okay . Secondly , um , sandra knew that the Dallas County medical examiner would see this . Ain't this lady's first rodeo ? Yes , so she turned that to her advantage . Instead of remaining sort of shy and elusive about talking to it , she actually brings it into the conversation and says this is precisely the reason why Betsy wanted to talk to me is because my first husband committed suicide .

Speaker 2 20:30

See , I can see why you're drawn to a character like this , because I'm a writer too . I can see why you're drawn because it's almost like a deliciously evil person , like very bright , knows what she's doing . She's setting them up along the way , correct ?

Speaker 3 20:44

Everything is planned very carefully , everybody is sort of set up . Men in particular kind of have no idea what's hitting them with this lady . The extraordinary manipulative charm and seductive qualities of this lady where women are concerned , it's almost just pitiful . I mean , it's just . And one of the things that you know I discovered in my research is I would identify a guy who I would have strong reason to believe knows something , possibly possesses valuable forensic information . So I'd ring the guy up , and oftentimes these are people that are connected with my broader social network or my family , and you know he'd initially be kind of friendly on the phone and then I'd say I want to talk about Sandra . And the response was often well , you know , I'm not sure that's something I want to talk about . And it became evident pretty quickly and I have multiple witnesses , female witnesses , who've contacted me to tell me this that Sandra was very adept at seducing married men . And then so you seduce a married man , you ask him for something money to co-sign a bank loan , to whatever . You ask him for something .

Speaker 2 22:13

Is that what we do ? I ?

Speaker 1 22:15

know I'm taking it , Ask for some money . Well , I mean you know , if you want to y'all are both pretty ladies , if y'all want to start seducing married men first of all , it's very easy Ask for money . It's very easy .

Speaker 3 22:26

Yeah , that's the first thing . For beautiful women like the two of you , it's very easy . And then , secondly , yeah , they'll get out their checkbooks . But once they do , then you have to say , oh , you know , I thought that was just a gift gift . And then when he says , well , honey , it wasn't a gift . Like you said , you needed a loan to send a child to college or to buy a new car . It wasn't a gift At which point you say , well , I think that's something you should discuss with your wife . Oh , okay .

Speaker 3 23:04

Maybe she would be interested in hearing about whether it was a gift or a loan .

Speaker 2 23:09

So that's why these guys were not going to go up against her , because it would expose themselves .

Speaker 3 23:15

There's an old Italian mafia concept called omerta . Omerta , it's the code of silence See nothing , hear nothing , say nothing , okay . Silence . See nothing , hear nothing , say nothing , okay . And and the old italian mafia omerita is enforced with threats of violence , like if you , if you should decide you want to talk about this , your family will just , you're gonna , you're gonna have violent action taken against you . In the case of this story , I call call it the omerta of sex .

Speaker 1 24:00

Sex in an extramarital environment will virtually guarantee silence , so it's one of the things I had to contend with in my research . Well , I was curious , besides what you're talking about here , what other challenges you had in your investigations as far as getting more information . Did you encounter any other problems ?

Speaker 3 24:14

Well , it was nothing but problems . So two years after Betsy Bagwell was found shot , a young guy from Oklahoma City named Alan Rarig , 29 years old , had just moved to Dallas the day before and is driving down Lorain Avenue . A buddy in his office tells him people in Highland Park rent garage apartments , so he's literally looking for a new place to stay . In his new home Sees this raven-haired lady watering her azalea bushes in her front yard , feels drawn to her as most men did . Parks his car , goes and talks to her , says hey , I'm looking for garage apartments . She says I don't know of any , but if you want to come back in half an hour I can show you around , oh my . So she goes and freshens up , probably puts on some bright red lipstick . He comes back in half an hour . She gives him a little tour of the neighborhood , okay .

The Deadly Deception of Sandra

Speaker 3 25:15

And then the usual thing unwinds , whirlwind , romance ensues . She tells him she's pregnant . Okay , now , unbeknownst to him , that's impossible because she'd had a hysterectomy seven years earlier . But he doesn't know that . Yeah , he's kind of an old-fashioned Christian boy from Oklahoma .

Speaker 3 25:33

Decides to do the right thing , proposes marriage . They marry at the mansion on Turtle Creek , the hotel conceived and developed by her second husband , bobby . Now Bobby died of lymphoma . I should go ahead and interject that On the eve of the one-year wedding anniversary of Alan and Sandra he's then last seen alive for the last time , running out to meet Sandra to do an errand with Sandra . He doesn't return from the . He's estranged from her at the time . The marriage went south pretty quick . He's living in a friend's house in North Dallas . Quick , he's living in a friend's house in North Dallas . He's last seen by his friend pulling out of the driveway to go meet Sandra . Doesn't return from the errand . His body is found four days later in his vehicle parked in an empty lot near the Oklahoma City airport , shot in the right side of the head .

Speaker 2 26:30

So this is number three .

Speaker 3 26:32

Number three .

Speaker 2 26:33

But she did not serve a lot of time .

Speaker 3 26:36

She didn't serve any time , didn't ?

Speaker 2 26:37

she serve a little bit of time . No , she got arrested eventually for identity theft For identity theft .

Speaker 1 26:43

She was never even that is so crazy .

Speaker 3 26:45

Sandra , four of these three gunshot deaths . So remember husband one ruled suicide . Betsy Bagwell ruled suicide by the time you get to husband three . Now that may have been the initial intention with husband three . May have been to stage it to look like a suicide once again , but he reacted . He was a young athlete . You can see from the angles of the gunshots . First one hits him in the torso and it looks like he's trying to get out of the way and he and it doesn't kill him . So there's a second shot to the back of the head , a suicide like a execution shot to the back of the . So there's no as dumb as medical examiners seem to have been back in the day . There was no misinterpreting that for suicide . He was shot twice , including in the back of the head so so this guy was killed .

Speaker 3 27:39

Last known contact was her was his estranged wife , who had persuaded him to take on a life insurance policy with the 220 000 death benefit a few months earlier . She's the prime suspect . She quickly liars up . She says she loved her husband . Has no idea what happened to him . Oh my God . Oh my God , this is so terrible . But then she doesn't cooperate with the police . Hires Vincent Perini . He's a formidable local defense attorney in Dallas and refuses to talk to the cops , while at the same time saying I really love my husband and I'm really afraid that he got mixed up with bad people , but I don't want to talk about it with the police . So she remains the prime suspect for the murder of Alan Roehrig in 1985 to this day .

Speaker 2 28:28

Okay .

Speaker 3 28:29

But she was never arrested for it .

Speaker 2 28:33

How do you think she managed to fly under the radar ? Do you think it was a little bit of like not in our neighborhood ? What do you think made people she ?

Speaker 3 28:39

didn't fly under the neighborhood . But they couldn't pin it on her , she was just absolutely notorious . Well , I think that the root of the investigative problem goes back to the murder of Betsy Bagwell . The problem goes back to the murder of Betsy .

Speaker 1 28:53

Bagwell okay .

Speaker 3 28:53

With her first husband . She had not been in contact , had any suspicious contact with law enforcement . Before they come , she's this pretty girl wearing a pretty yellow dress and is hysterical , and beside herself Guy's a dentist . Apparently he's stressed out about money . Kind of looks like suicide . So okay , looks like suicide , sort of we'll call it a suicide .

Speaker 3 29:19

The plot really thickens and the whole thing becomes morally and legally very , very fraught , very problematic with the death of Betsy Bagwell in 82 , because everybody knew that Betsy didn't commit suicide . Her husband knew that she didn't commit suicide . In fact , as I much later discovered , her husband was being stalked by Sandra at this time and was continuing continued to be stalked by her after Betsy's death . Continued to be stalked by her after Betsy's death . Sandra told some of her friends she was having an affair with him . At the time . None of Sandra's story with respect to Betsy made any sense whatsoever I got , so now I'm getting to the heart of the story .

Speaker 3 30:15

What I had to do to advance the football all the way into the end zone with this is I had to get the original crime scene , or because they were ruled suicides , let's call it death scene . Photos of Betsy at the airport in her vehicle , and of David Stiegel , the first husband . I was able , through an Open Records Act request , to obtain those photos . It was a major pain but I was able to obtain them . And then I forwarded the photos to my forensic experts the people who I mentioned . I encountered , or I got to know with my first book .

Speaker 3 30:49

They examined those photographs and what those photographs clearly display are multiple signs that another party was involved in these deaths . They weren't suicides and I could show you those images and I could tell you what you're looking at . And once you see it you can't unsee it . I mean it becomes very evident . The bloodstain patterns . There's multiple things with ballistics and in the case of Betsy's body it had clearly been moved after she was shot . Husband one and Betsy Bagwell the physical evidence displayed in the crime scene photos proves these weren't suicides , these were homicides . Okay , and their circumstances the last known contact , everything about them links with the murder of Sandra's third husband . Murder of Sandra's third husband . Once you see that these are all part of the same series and that Sandra was the last known contact of all three and had a clear motive for all three , then you realize that the logical conclusion , at least for me , speaking for myself , is that she is in fact fact , responsible for all three of these .

Speaker 1 32:16

Where is she now ? She's still floating around out there somewhere , right ?

Speaker 3 32:20

She is . I have intelligence . She's been cited in different spots .

Speaker 3 32:27

She's not in Dallas , at least to my knowledge she's not in Dallas , but I believe she's still alive . She is still free . She served two years in a federal pen for aggravated identity theft . She presented her , so the femme fatale in the 80s . As she ages , that then persona then turns morphs into Christian missionary and minister and she plied the church congregations of the American South and California , interestingly enough , introduced herself as a missionary and a minister . She claimed to have some kind of ministerial credentials . She knew the Bible backwards and forwards .

Speaker 3 33:16

In the year 2006 she ingratiated herself with an elderly widow in Southport , north Carolina , which we know from the film Cape Fear . That's , that's right there on Cape Fear . Sandra turns up in Cape Fear and ingratiates herself with an elderly widow , says you know , I'm in between missions to Africa . I've got about a month to kill before I head off to take care of starving children in Africa In the interim . You know I could stay with you , I could cook , I could clean , I could keep you company around the house . This widow was very eagerly and graciously accepted Sandra's proposal . Sandra moves in with her . Sandra then quickly stole her identity , took out credit cards in her name , tried to change the bank routing of her Social Security benefit . Finally the law caught her on that . But that was a notable thing I realized , because in many ways the same techniques of manipulation , deception , false identities , all of these tricks that she had employed with these poor husbands of hers in the 70s and 80s , there you see the same pattern .

Speaker 2 34:33

You see the same pattern . I was stuck on when you said I've got a month to kill .

Speaker 1 34:38

That's where .

Speaker 2 34:40

I left off

Fascinating Story With Author John Leek

Speaker 2 34:41

.

Speaker 1 34:41

It's a fascinating story . Well , thank you so much for joining us today . And where can people learn more about you and buy the book ?

Speaker 3 34:48

I have a website , authorjohnleekcom , and then I have a YouTube page where you can see a presentation of evidence in this case . If you go to YouTube and do a search Author John Leek on YouTube and you can buy the book on Amazon .

Speaker 1 35:06

Well , and as always , I will provide a link for you all , so you don't have to memorize it .

Speaker 2 35:10

So that's been really fascinating . Thank you so much for being on , John . You've got a lot of other books out there too , and you're clearly a great writer , and ladies dig yourselves into this story .

Speaker 3 35:21

Thank you , ladies , I enjoyed it . Thanks for having me .

Speaker 1 35:24

Absolutely Well . That's been another episode of the Bubble Lounge . I'm Martha Jackson .

Speaker 2 35:27

And I'm Nellie Sciutto , and we'll catch you next time .